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Lady-Eowyn
(Sun May 4 16:51:36)
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 UPDATED Wed May 7 15:08:20 |
NOTE I am well-aware that Tolkien has said that neither Middle-earth nor LotR is an allegory of anything. I am saying that Middle-earth is instead a microcosm, which is different from an allegory.
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First off, for your reference, a definition:
microcosm: (1) a little world, especially of the human race or human nature seen as an epitome of the world or the universe; (2) a community or other unity that is an epitome of a larger unity (Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Tenth Edition)
In many ways, Middle-earth and its history is a microcosm of our Earth (which I shall, henceforth, refer to as "Full-earth"). Many of the landscapes described by Tolkien can be found on Full-earth. Even the races of Middle-earth are comparable to the social classes of Full-earth's present and past civilisations, as well as the races'/classes' interactions. For example, the mutual dislike between the Dwarves and the Elves is symbolic of the "misunderstanding" between the business-/salesmen (Dwarves, like business-/salesmen, reaped wealth wherever they could find it and then marketed it) and the "aristocracy" (Elves were not as corrupt as most ancient civilisation's aristocracies; a somewhat better term would be "elite," but the Elves were not necessarily material-wealthy). In many historical civilisations, there has been a mutual "disagreement" between the merchant class and the elite; this is well represented by the Dwarves and the Elves.
That said, I'll get to the point. Anything and everything associated with Melkor (a.k.a., Melkor & Co. from this point on) was the common Enemy of the Free Peoples of Middle-earth. Sure, the Elves and the Dwarves didn't like each other that much, but they both hated Melkor & Co.
The Ring was certainly related to Melkor & Co., since it was the product and idol of Sauron, made in a fit of avarice and desire. Oddly enough, though, the Ring was tempting to all who beheld it (the Elves are no exception - think Galadriel, though she was a Ring-bearer and therefore more susceptible - though Gandalf said that the Elves will resist Sauron for all they've got), regardless of race.
Then a Fellowship was formed. At least one member of every race was included in this Company; the Fellowship's purpose was to help a member of the farmer/peasant class destroy this trinket that was irresistable to many.
Tolkien may have unintentionally written Middle-earth to be a microcosm of Full-earth, or he may not have. Regardless, who on Full-earth do you think the common Enemy - Melkor & Co. - would have represented? Why? What, if anything, does the Ring symbolise in Full-earth? Did Tolkien want to send a message to all readers to unite despite differences to save Full-earth from destruction/ruin by destroying a product of the common Enemy? Do you think that, if he did not mean to send this message, people will recognise this anyway?
EDIT One of the posters here has expressed concerns that I have made LotR/Middle-earth seem more like an allegory than a microcosm. I sincerely apologise if this applies to any of you as well.
Here is what I wrote in response:
Okay. The main difference between a microcosm and an allegory is, a microcosm has more to do with scale (it's a smaller and/or more primitive version of something), while an allegory is more of a serious parody/lampoon. Middle-earth is clearly a microcosm, because it is more primitive than Full-earth as Tolkien knew it, in the 1930's/40's. It is also much smaller in scale. Allegories make fun of happenings/people (think "Animal Farm"); they tend to have a sarcastic tone to them. LotR is clearly not cynical at all; it is therefore a microcosm.
I hope I've been clear; please PM me if you have any further concerns.
 You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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sinaes
(Sun May 4 19:00:27)
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Wonderful post Eowyn, I am thoroughly impressed! 
Surveys, thought provoking on-topics, what next. Yep the girl gots skills. 
I'm like a good haines t-shirt: tagless 
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What next? One never can tell... 
Anyway, thanks, but can you answer my questions?
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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sinaes
(Mon May 5 10:35:23)
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Questions? There were questions  Ok.
Tolkien may have unintentionally written Middle-earth to be a microcosm of Full-earth, or he may not have. Regardless, who on Full-earth do you think the common Enemy - Melkor & Co. - would have represented? Why? What, if anything, does the Ring symbolise in Full-earth? Did Tolkien want to send a message to all readers to unite despite differences to save Full-earth from destruction/ruin by destroying a product of the common Enemy? Do you think that, if he did not mean to send this message, people will recognise this anyway?
Unfortunately, the whole nature of evil series has been deleted. A few of these questions were dealt with there, and I wish I could point you to those discussions as they dealt with them more aptly. But seeing as I can't do that, I'll try to answer your questions as best I can.
Tolkien may have unintentionally written Middle-earth to be a microcosm of Full-earth, or he may not have. Regardless, who on Full-earth do you think the common Enemy - Melkor & Co. - would have represented?
Evil, all evil. 
Tolkien's exact view on evil in unclear to me, but I'm fairly certain he didn't believe in true evil. Except perhaps Melkor loosly representing the devil.
Why? What, if anything, does the Ring symbolise in Full-earth?
More at ... [url]http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0167261/board/thread/495604?d=514924#514924[url]
Did Tolkien want to send a message to all readers to unite despite differences to save Full-earth from destruction/ruin by destroying a product of the common Enemy? Do you think that, if he did not mean to send this message, people will recognise this anyway?
Now this question is dwelving into the nature of the hero in mythic. Tolkien has said that he did not intend to write an allogory, and I take him at his word. However, it does not mean that things of an allogorical nature did not find their way in.
Tolkien did intend to write a new mythology. Mythologies inevitable revolve around 'heroes' and something known as the 'hero's journey'. Part of a hero's role is to extoll the virtues of a society by being an examplar for them. The virtue of uniting against a common foe is an old one, and a good one. Along with other virtues such as courage and endurance, it's common for a hero to possess these qualities. I don't think Tolkien could really have gotten around it , so while he may not have intended to send a message, he certainly would have known it was beeing sent.
The fact that he chose hobbits to be the heroes, supposedly Middle-Earth englishman (no allogory huh ), really makes it clear that Tolkien did mean to send a message to his fellow countrymen.
I'm like a good haines t-shirt: tagless
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sinaes
(Mon May 5 17:06:37)
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I'm like a good haines t-shirt: tagless
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I'm satisfied. But I wish other people would answer. All those deleted posts are my bumps.
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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sinaes
(Mon May 5 18:01:47)
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I have you all to myself then (evil laugh) .. sounds like something the ladygreenleaf might say actually 
It's a really great thread Eowyn! Maybe everyone else is just intimidated of your intelligence and thus are afraid to respond. I know it happens to Aule a lot.
I'm like a good haines t-shirt: tagless
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Ack, I'm scared! 
Yeah, this happened with my last on-topic post ("Temptation"). I'm beginning to think that people think my on-topic posts are weird... I've never seen this happen to anyone else, including Aule. Maybe I ought to just stick with being humourous.
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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sinaes
(Mon May 5 18:36:14)
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Maybe you've been typecast as a girl who only does surveys? Hmm .. sounds like a good survey topic actually.
Don't worry, enjoy anonymity .. soon you'll be famous having way too many posts to respond too 
I'm like a good haines t-shirt: tagless
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Oddly, though, I only did serious posts when I first registered (early January). It wasn't until mid-Feb, when I began the Parody, that I started turning to humourous and OT topics.
Oh well. I'll just wait it out.
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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sinaes
(Mon May 5 20:37:39)
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I think I'll tell Athene to add this thread to the "good posts". It really deserves more responses.
I'm like a good haines t-shirt: tagless
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Thanks. I hope that picks up some more readers.
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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I think that part of the reason you are getting passed over is that so many older threads have been bumped to the "head of the class" recently that a lot of people (myself included) have been focusing time on catching up with some of the old threads and the old posts come home. I, myself, have a couple of threads to post, but with the number of threads in play at the moment, the timing does not seem propitious, so I am holding off. There are a number of threads that interest me, to which I have not had time to get to.
First, Eowyn, great post. It is interesting to think about, even with relation to other fantasy novelists. Think about it this way. The trilogy as a literary form really seems to have been accidentally created by Tolkien.
So, we go into these other fantasy worlds, and each author has created a new world, of varying depth, with slightly differing rules.
But, in some way, each of these worlds and stories is about people. In each, the author finds some message, lesson, moral or characteristic to emphasize, within their world. They do this, because Tolkien did it.
Also, reading your post, I was reminded of a song by Jimmy Buffett, called, "Fruitcakes", in which he makes the case that "perhaps the cosmic bakers took us out of the oven just a little too early."
Fruitcakes in the kitchen
Fruitcakes on the bus
There's a little bit of fruitcake
In every one of us!
Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow,
Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow.
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YESSS! Another reply! Thank you o so much!
*ahem* All right, good point about why an on-topic thread seems to not be knabbing much attention.
And good point about other writers. Thanks (also for the song, lol).
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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Do you know the song?
Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow,
Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow.
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If I have, I haven't recognised it or put it into long-term memory. But it sounds nice.
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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Well, I gave you author and name of song...look it up. It is kind of on the goofy side, but with serious points.
Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow,
Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow.
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All right, will do later. Thanks!
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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I've actually been thinking about this but I'm drawing a blank in regards to what the Ring could symbolise in Full-Earth...I'll keep trying though!
The important thing is what I Am Becoming.
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This is a great post, Eowyn.
I'm sorry you haven't had more replies; maybe anyone who wants to answer are (like me) giving themselves time to think - I know I usually have to read these serious posts and then go away for a while to let the ideas formulate properly. If I answer straight away, my thoughts are all half-baked!
To try and answer some of your questions...
The Ring would give Sauron the power to dominate all other races; maybe it is the evils of slavery (or, to a lesser extent, dictatorship) that Sauron and the Ring represents.
The Ring itself, I think, is Temptation (like the Silmarils were in "The Silmarillion, but in a more overt manifestation).
In the Silmarillion, the Silmarils were not evil in themselves, but their beauty, radiance, and supernatural nature were irresistable to all who saw them, and they led to the sins of pride, greed, envy, etc - resulting in bloodshed and division between the elves.
In LOTR, the Ring is an evil object (or the embodimant of an evil spirit); and the temptation it offers is that of power. However, this is a deceit, and those that would give in to the temptation would merely become pawns of the evil itself.
Not all those who wander are lost
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You seem to have drifted into allegorical territory with your post somewhat....
"Life is a tragedy when seen in close-up, but a comedy in long-shot."- Charles Chaplin
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Lady-Eowyn
(Tue May 6 05:33:08)
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| UPDATED Tue May 6 05:37:23 |
If I did, I did not intend to. There is a difference between an allegory and a microcosm, and I was hoping I'd made that clear. Apologies.
Okay, here are the definitions of microcosm and allegory, from dictionary.com.
microcosm ~ A small, representative system having analogies to a larger system in constitution, configuration, or development; A little world; a miniature universe; a miniature model of something
allegory ~ The representation of abstract ideas or principles by characters, figures, or events in narrative, dramatic, or pictorial form; A story, picture, or play employing such representation; A figurative sentence or discourse, in which the principal subject is described by another subject resembling it in its properties and circumstances. The real subject is thus kept out of view, and we are left to collect the intentions of the writer or speaker by the resemblance of the secondary to the primary subject; Anything which represents by suggestive resemblance; an emblem
Slight difference, but it's there.
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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Lianachan
(Tue May 6 05:46:37)
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| UPDATED Tue May 6 05:53:03 |
I am perfectly aware of the difference.
That's why I was able to say that you drifted into the allegorical.
Thanks for the English lesson though, it was desperately needed.
"Life is a tragedy when seen in close-up, but a comedy in long-shot."- Charles Chaplin
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Lady-Eowyn
(Tue May 6 08:37:01)
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| UPDATED Wed May 7 15:06:34 |
I didn't mean to. But I don't feel like editing that message... gotta edit a friend's history paper right now.
EDIT Okay. The main difference between a microcosm and an allegory is, a microcosm has more to do with scale (it's a smaller and/or more primitive version of something), while an allegory is more of a serious parody/lampoon. Middle-earth is clearly a microcosm, because it is more primitive than Full-earth as Tolkien knew it, in the 1930's/40's. It is also much smaller in scale. Allegories make fun of happenings/people (think "Animal Farm"); they tend to have a sarcastic tone to them. LotR is clearly not cynical at all; it is therefore a microcosm.
I should make that clear in my original message...
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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This message has been deleted by the poster
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...the angels had guitars even before they had wings...
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Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow,
Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow.
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This message has been deleted by the poster
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This message has been deleted by the poster
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Thanks for providing words from the Master (good title for him, btw!), Canon!
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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This message has been deleted by the poster
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hey lady-Eowyn,
great post. i;m kind of new to the boards or i would have posted earlier.
I would just like to add my thoughts on the ring. Well, i;m sure somebody has said this before me but..
I think in real earth the Ring could be seen as the Atomic bomb and just weapons technology in general. Its a very strange idea. The Bombs are wanted as a source of unmatchable power for one group over the other. And like the humans of middle-earth that want to us the ring to defeat Suaron. Governments of the richer country try to rationalize building a "defense" with these horrible destructive devices. Sorry. i;m not trying to make a moral statement or anything. I just see some simularitys.
Well, something to think about.
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Thanks for responding, Jabez; it doesn't matter when!
Hmm... that's actually a good analogy, what with the government bit.
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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A friendly bump from Sponsor #11593: Lady Éowyn
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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A friendly bump from Sponsor #11593: Lady Éowyn
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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