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lkalliance
(Sun Jul 13 00:48:16)
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 UPDATED Sun Jul 13 12:20:48 |
It's been a while since I did a serious on-topic post and I was feeling a bit guilty. I've got a couple of topics I want to touch on, and this is the easier of the two and the first I'm going to attack. It's not so much a topic of debate as it is a "gee whiz" kind of post, nor is it particularly deep, but it's something that's been on my mind recently.
I've been listening to my FOTR and TTT soundtracks more recently. Of course, we've got the FOTR EE and so every note of the soundtrack recalls a scene -- I'm sure the same will be true of the TTT soundtrack eventually -- and I've noticed that there is a new clarity in my mind which scene is now my favorite of the two. Actually, it's not one scene but a stretch of scenes, united by one track on the CD of course.
I don't know if my esteem for this few minutes of film is being affected by my regard for this track, or vice versa. But I know when watching it on DVD I find this part especially stirring, and probably the soundtrack has something to do with it.
The track is "The Breaking of the Fellowship," and it covers on film roughly the attack on Amon Hen right up to the roll of the credits.
Now there are scenes in both films that make my heart pound. I still (after many many viewings) sit at the edge of my seat for the flight to the Bridge and the confrontation with the Balrog. And at Helm's Deep, that moment when Gandalf and Éomer charge down into the valley and thousands of horsemen sweep over the ridge behind them has made me want to jump up in the theater and yell with my rush of adrenaline.
But for me the last ten minutes of FOTR are the finest moments of the first two films. And oddly, they're in part for reasons that exist in the film but not in the books.
ARAGORN'S FINEST MOMENT
No two ways about it, Aragorn has done a lot of cool sh*t in the first two films (wait, did I just type sh*t? F*ck, I must be tired). But for me, this sequence in which he finally assumes the mantle of leadership and accepts his destiny just crackle with energy. First he rejects the Ring, and releases Frodo. The look in his eyes as he turns to face down a hundred Uruk-hai is the look of someone that has just faced his darkest demon and soundly defeated it. He is invincible at that moment -- nothing the Uruk-hai could have thrown at him was mightier than that which he had just overcome.
Some have scoffed at the scene...how can one man face that many enemies, etc. But that's exactly the point. Aragorn, a man of incredible power, has just risen to the task that his great forefather failed to achieve. At that moment he became capable of claiming the kingship, where he wasn't capable before. At that moment NO task was now too great for him.
The second moment in this Elessarian Transformation is Boromir's death. On its own merits, Boromir's death scenes are masterful, and that's part of why this stretch of celluloid is my favorite. But besides the surface, we now have Aragorn in his incredibly moving scenes with Boromir assuming the responsibility of becoming the King.
Again, it's in the eyes. As Boromir's boat slips over Rauros bearing its heroic fallen cargo, we cut to Aragorn putting on Boromir's wristguards. And the steely look in his eyes says, "Yes. I am capable of this. I accept this responsiblity, and I will do this thing, or die trying."
And finally, the crowning moment, as Aragorn tells Legolas and Gimli that they must let Frodo go, and that they must follow Merry and Pippin. At the moment he says "Let's hunt some orc," the look in Legolas' eyes is fierce. At the Council of Elrond, Legolas jumps to Aragorn's defense, and scolds Boromir. But his demeanor says that this is out of respect. At that moment, at Parth Galen, Legolas would have followed Aragorn anywhere. And with a bolt of energy all three charge up the hill in pursuit of the Uruk-hai.
This triumvirate of Aragorn's -- proving to himself, accepting responsibility, and then moving to act -- is powerful, powerful stuff to me. That kind of power was not possible in the context of the books as they were written. Aragorn of the text had long since set his feet upon the path the kingship. Those chapters (at the end of FOTR and the beginning of TTT) were moments of great indecision and doubt for Aragorn. Quite the opposite here.
SACRIFICE
It's been noted many times on this board, most eloquently by Alizarin many months ago, about the central role sacrifice plays in LOTR. Another small vignette in this part of the film -- again, something done differently in the books -- is Merry and Pippin beckoning to Frodo, and Merry figuring out what Frodo was about to do. That small line -- "He's leaving." -- had me riveted.
And poor Frodo! He's beset with sacrifice all around him. He sacrifices himself so that he will not endanger his friends by going off on his own. And yet here he is, faced with the reality that Merry and Pippin are about to sacrifice themselves so that Frodo could get away. It had all failed already. But on Frodo must go, if there is any hope to succeed in the Quest and at the same time not destroy everything he loves.
SAM
There are plenty of heroes to choose from in this story. To some Frodo is the hero, to others Aragorn. Legolas has his admirers, so does Gimli. Merry and Pippin will have their loyalists by the end of ROTK, I'm sure. Faramir and Éomer and Éowyn and all sorts of others.
I'm a Sam man. It's all about Sam. Sam is everyman. Sam is me. Sam is you. Sam is the common man thrust into uncommon circumstances, in over his head but surviving not by cleverness or by strength or by uncommon wisdom...but by the wholesome traits of loyalty, trust and love.
So I was looking -- from the very beginning -- for some fulfillment of that in the film. Even moreso than in TTT, the very last scene of FOTR gave me a huge amount to be happy over on this score. The final scene of the film, as Frodo and Sam crest the ridge and look out over Emyn Muil towards distant Mordor, is the killer. Watch that scene. Sam is behind Frodo, not beside him. Frodo is in front, the glare of Mordor in his face, revealing all the doubt and fear and resignation there. Frodo is the burden-carrier and he is heroic, but he is doomed. It's all there.
But Sam's face shows calm confidence. But he's in the shadow. He's the strength that comes from that place we can't always locate within ourselves. We just trust it's there. His voice isn't loud...it's soft and soothing, but unmistakably there. It's just a couple of lines of dalogue:
FRODO: Mordor...I hope the others find a safer road.
SAM: Strider will look after them.
FRODO: I don't suppose we'll ever see them again.
SAM: We may yet, Mr. Frodo. We may.
The entire setting -- the lighting, the voices, the way Sam's strength seems to come not from outside Frodo but somehow manages to uplift him from within -- is perfect. Even on my first viewing -- and I had to use the first viewing to get all my nitpicks out of my system, so it was going to be my least favorable one -- I walked out of the theater bubbling. Actually, more llike babbling, babbling to my wife about how Sam was going to be Sam. I had seen it all just in that brief 60 seconds at the end of the film, heard it all in Sean Astin's voice. I was on top of the world.
(***EDIT: One more thing about the way that scene was shot adds to the effectiveness. Sam is not only in the shadow, off-center, but he's looking at Frodo, and not at Mordor. Just the right touch.)
OTHER THINGS
People in the theater who weren't familiar with the books were surprised that the story was left "hanging". We've all encountered that, I think. But I found the "non-ending" to have plenty of closure. There is a renewed sense of purpose. Aragorn has his new purpose: find Merry and Pippin, earn the Kingship, save Mankind, the usual. Frodo and Sam have their new purpose: get to Mordor, but without the Fellowship to guide them.
Somehow the removal of all that doubt -- How am I (Frodo) going to prevent the Ring from overcoming my friends? How can I (Aragorn) possibly be the King? How can I (Sam) save the master that I love? -- is strong closure to me. Of course I know the story, so I was anxious to move on to the next stage in the tale. The bridge between FOTR and TTT is much more definitive than the bridge between TTT and ROTK.
One other little cool thing, didn't know where to put it. As Boromir's boat goes on its way and Legolas runs to Aragorn to report that Frodo and Sam had reached the Eastern Shore, the camera pans with Legolas, but over on the left is the still form of Gimli, paying his respect to Boromir even in the moment of urgency. I've just always been touched by that bit.
And of course Boromir's death, as I mentioned, and Frodo's resolve at Parth Galen, and his replaying of Gandalf's words in his mind (is there no pain that will be spared Frodo in this parting?) also make this part of the films stand out.
Anyway, I think I replayed that track about ten times today while I was cleaning out the garage, just replaying these scenes over and over again in my mind. I'm running out of gas, so I'm going to have to post my other on-topic issue at a later time.
Dying is easy. Comedy is hard.
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No fair making me want to cry at 2 a.m., Elkie. But I totally agree with you. All of FotR is an artistic masterpiece, but that last 15 minutes is really ... just too much!
Thanks for a great post! 
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You can write. I have to be honest, I never got the soundtrack.  I haven't bought a CD for years. I download everything. Or I should say my husband downloads everything for me.
But I just watched the E.E. version of FOTR again. I love it that way. So much more depth to the characters. Especially the lifestyle of the hobbits and the souls of Legolas and Gimli.
I just wanted to say I am Sam fan as well. I love Legolas for obvious physical reasons(aka Orlando) but I also like his coolness in the book. But I have to say Sam has the overall characteristics of a hero. As much as a may admire Aragorn and Frodo, it is Sam who really shines through. At least for me.
Great post. I was starting to feel guilty too. I needed to get back on topic.
You have got to be the worse pirate I ever heard of.
Yes, but you have heard of me.
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Lk, once again you have proved yourself to be the finest and most eloquent poster on this board.
That stuff about Aragorn, couldn't agree more.Viggo hits the nail right on the head with every nuance of emotion in those last 10 minutes.
To add to this Boromir's death scene is probably my favourite in Fellowship...it's almost impossible for me to watch crying.Seeing those two masterful actors, giving EVERYTHING they've got for that one scene, that one minute death scene is brilliant.And I'm glad Boromir didn't slowly close his eyes when he died.His expression stayed just as it was.It makes his death have an even worse impact.He was there one second.Then he wasn't.
And Sam, yes, Sam is da man!Sean Astin became Sam when they made the film, and whoo-boy does it show!His reverance for his character and his role in the books really shows on screen.I personally think Astin's Sam would blow Tolkien away.(Seriously)
 Whoah, who spiked the Egg Nog?
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mug-wumpus
(Sun Jul 13 01:10:06)
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| UPDATED Sun Jul 13 01:11:08 |
Great analysis, I agree completely. Despite many fine moments, for me no scene in TTT approached the emotional power and poignancy of the Breaking of the Fellowship.
I thought your point about Aragorn facing the hordes of uruk-hai was particularly insightful--hadn't thought of it in quite that way before.
I would add that part of what makes Boromir's death scene so moving is Aragorn's grief. The tears trickling down his face and the respect he shows Boromir ("Rest in peace, son of Gondor") is the true, final moment of Boromir's redemption. In this scene Aragorn, who has indeed faced and conquered his own demons at Amon Hen, has the grace and wisdom to love humans despite their flaws and frailties. It's a foreshadowing of his greatness as a king, and specifically the compassion that he will demonstrate toward his former enemies at the end of the War of the Ring....
Not idly do the leaves of Lorien fall
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All I can say right now is Wow! That was a good post!
I fear not the shadows of Men
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sinaes
(Sun Jul 13 01:14:43)
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Great Post Elkie.
I agree that this is Aragorn's finest moment 
And of course, Boromir, my favorite character :)
Who can forget that end.
I'm not as much a hobbit fan as you are I'm afraid :(
But it certainly was a highlight for them as well
On another note, I'll say that I hardly noticed the soundtrack to the movie in these scenes ... that's a very good thing :) I love the soundtrack. Certainly, any scene that can draw the music away from my consciousness, is indeed, quite good.
I'm like a good haines t-shirt: tagless 
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Guys,
As usual, I'm humbled by your praise, thank you for all the generous words and your added thoughts. Rather than several extra posts I wanted to touch on the replies all here in one...
FROM PTERO-VALLEY
No fair making me want to cry at 2 a.m., Elkie.
Hehe, I was crying in my garage today just listening. Or maybe it was the hernia.
FROM SCRETTA
You can write.
And yet as I read over the post I see a lot of poorly edited places. Damn. I wish I were either better at it or less picky. 
FROM SCRETTA
I never got the soundtrack.
I'm not usually like this, but I ran out and bought both soundtracks on the first day. Usually I wait to see the film and see if the music makes an impression. I love the EE too, btw. I didn't even buy the theatrical cut.
Mad Dog, I'd quote your entire post, lol. That's a great point about Boromir's eyes. Did you see the feature on color grading in the EE? At the moment he died, they took just a hint of color out of his face...just the barest hint. I love attention to detail.
Some people have said they felt Astin did the least well of the Hobbits...I disagree (and I get the impression you do too). He had me drooling for the next bit (actually for ROTK) with my very first viewing of that last scene.
FROM MUG-WUMPUS
for me no scene in TTT approached the emotional power and poignancy of the Breaking of the Fellowship.
I'm coming to that conclusion too. I LOVED the second film, but because it's the middle part it just has too much to overcome absent the closure of ROTK to be as good as FOTR. Perhaps it will always be that way: Act I is about delving into characters and making us care about them; Act II is about putting those characters into nasty circumstances, and Act III is physical and emotional resolution. Act II always has the least going for it as far as depth and emotion. So I agree totally with you.
The tears trickling down his face and the respect he shows Boromir ("Rest in peace, son of Gondor") is the true, final moment of Boromir's redemption. In this scene Aragorn, who has indeed faced and conquered his own demons at Amon Hen, has the grace and wisdom to love humans despite their flaws and frailties. It's a foreshadowing of his greatness as a king
Excellent point. You are so right!
I knew even as I was writing this post that I just couldn't find it in me to adequately describe Boromir's death scene and do it justice. But both Mad Dog and Muggy have done a great job, and I want to add something.
I've never been involved with an in-person death. I've been involved with an almost-in-person almost-death of someone very very very close to me. But still and all, I've never held a dying person in my arms and I hope never to do so, certainly not under those sorts of circumstances. But this I will say: I thought that the emotion of the scene, the things I saw in Aragorn's face and in his interaction with Boromir, seems a lot closer to how I would expect it to be like than what we usually see in the movies. I don't know if it felt real, but I strongly suspect that it did.
Legolas, just wanted to throw you a "hi", man. Did you see that the Imp Strike post is going to be published on ToRN? I know you're a fan of that one.
FROM SINAES
I'll say that I hardly noticed the soundtrack to the movie in these scenes ... that's a very good thing :) I love the soundtrack. Certainly, any scene that can draw the music away from my consciousness, is indeed, quite good.
I agree. The music plays a crucial role in creating a scene (and I don't think these scenes would have been as good with lesser music) but it should never make you aware that it's doing so. I've always considered the FOTR track to be a better soundtrack and the TTT track to be better listening-at-home music, but I'm not so sure any more. I think each has its moments. But I've watched the scenes (and listened to the music) SO OFTEN now that now I DO notice the music when I watch this part, because I like the music so much.
OK, now I really have run out of gas...going to turn in. Good night, all!
Dying is easy. Comedy is hard.
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Wow, great post, Elkie! 
Not that I really have anything to add to what you said... but upon reading your message, I don't think I can ever appreciate the films as much as those who read the books prior the films do.
Yes, I'm an insanely obsessed Tolkien fan. I can appreciate the books on the same level as many of you can. But as a Ringnut who was converted at midnight on Dec. 27, 2001, who had never even known there was more about Hobbits after "The Hobbit," I think that those of us who became Ringnuts because of the films are at a sad and irrevocable disadvantage.
Many of those who previously read the books were already Tolkien fans before PJ even announced his directing LotR as a trilogy of films. They read and mulled over Tolkien's many works and were already acquainted with Middle-earth, Valinor, and Númenórë. They could go see FotR and TTT in the theatre as a visual interpretation of this beloved story; and since they already knew the story, they could wholly appreciate the beauty of the film and not waste brain cells figuring out the plot as the film progressed.
I went to FotR only because my brother's friends were so excited. I wasn't expecting anything. Consequently, I was caught up in the thrill of watching a beautifully-made film, but I was obligated to keep track of the plot as well as the overall beauty. Be assured - yes, I was indeed intrigued. I went home at midnight and stayed up till 5 am reading FotR. The next day I picked up TTT and plunged into it. By the time Dec. 18, 2002, rolled around - the release date for TTT - I'd read LotR ten times.
I don't think that even then I could have been able to capture the beauty and care and subtleties put into TTT. Even after ten readings, I feel that it was not quantity but quality that mattered - unlike those who previously read LotR, I had but a year to soak it up (and I read it mostly to really know the story), and not many years during which to develop a real appreciation for the story.
To wrap this Lament up - those of you who read the books before the films came out are so incredibly fortunate to have been able to appreciate the films as an artistic masterpiece and not merely as a story.
 You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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I feel that when you've got a book and a film, usually the first one you experience defines what you consider to be "the story." I saw The Natural on film first, then read Malamud's novel...to me the source material is a poor recreation of the excellent film, though of course in reality they were reversed.
But usually, one version or the other is "better." That's not to say that one is bad, but usually one is better. The novels were way way better than the Bakshi version, for example.
In this case, however, I think that those that are in your circumstance -- having seen the films before reading the novels -- are not at such a disadvantage. I think the films are the equal to the books, that is, that the films are as good a visual experience as the books are a literal experience (to be fair, others disagree). I can't get over these movies, even though I read the books many times first, and intuitively I think that if I had done it in your order, that the same would be true in reverse.
And for some people, immersion, like you've done, can work just as well. I've read the books about 15 times or so, spread out over about 25 years. Each time I come away with some new insight into some nuance of the story. But that's only possible because I've already read and digested the basics. Any mental energy I have to put towards the basics is energy I might have used towards exploring those nuances but couldn't. In an immersion situation, like yours, all those basics are always fresh in your head (it helps to have a young head like yours instead of an older one like mine). I'd venture to suggest that a larger portion of your thought goes to exploring the periphery of the story than otherwise.
But I'm only hypothesizing, of course. You'd know better how you are relating to the books and whether you feel you'd relate better if the order had been reversed. I hope you find some solace, though, in that Tolkien's worlds are much broader than this one tale. There are plenty of virgin paths to explore for you, most of which will give you that same renewed appreciation of these roads already trod. The Silmarillion sheds some really interesting light on LOTR in retrospect (assuming you read LOTR first and The Sil next)...and those new views on the story should open for you just the same as they opened for me or for anyone else (or, rather, they'd open for you now the same as they would have opened for you had you read the novels first).
Dying is easy. Comedy is hard.
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In this case, however, I think that those that are in your circumstance -- having seen the films before reading the novels -- are not at such a disadvantage. I think the films are the equal to the books, that is, that the films are as good a visual experience as the books are a literal experience
Perhaps. But I think that what I was driving at was, I could not have - in my mind and using my imagination - interpreted the books my own way. Instead, I was greatly influenced by the visual beauty of FotR and was unable to envision Middle-earth and its inhabitants on my own. Those who previously read the books were at an advantage because they could form their own opinions and visual/etc interpretations of each character and location. The films were merely a visual fulfillment of (most of) their mental images.
I cannot tell you how much the film's visual beauty has influenced me. The Elves have completely altered my style of drawing, for one thing. I cannot think of Frodo without Elijah Wood's pale, sensitively-chiselled face appearing before my eyes. I cannot vividly imagine the Hobbits' arduous 17-day-long journey from Weathertop to Rivendell because it was replaced by Arwen's horse race; the same goes with the Old Forest and the Barrow-downs.
In a nutshell, the visual interpretations that I'd have gotten by reading the books first is perhaps what I miss most.
I hope you find some solace, though, in that Tolkien's worlds are much broader than this one tale.
I do indeed. I just finished reading "The Sil" for the second time, and yes - I did read LotR first. Now I know what Gandalf was up to when he left the Dwarves and Bilbo with Beorn, and of his counsels with Elrond. Such a warm feeling, when the puzzle pieces fit.
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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I heartily agree -- we are lucky as heck. I urged some of my close friends to read LOTR before the films came out and they are glad they did.
Readking LK's words brought back all the emotion of that first viewing. When Boromir said "my king," I just lost it. The screenwriters said in the commentary that they brought emotion that was never verbalized in the book out in those scenes, Frodo taking leave of Aragorn and Boromir's death. They were justly proud of the job they did in adapting the script.
I loved the way the poetry the Three Hunters speak in the book was adapted in Aragorn's line and the look of grief on his face. "They will look for him from the White Tower, but he will not return."
*wipes eyes*
All I can say, LK, is you have made me laugh my ass off this week, and now you are making me cry. I'd say that is the sign of a good writer.
"I hope that the forgotten people will not have forgotten how to fight."
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And you, miko, are a very gracious reader. I'm blushing!
You know, I hadn't realized that Aragorn's White Tower line was from the Three Hunters' eulogy. I love when they do that...find places to insert poignant dialogue in creative ways.
Dying is easy. Comedy is hard.
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Y'know... if they put anything from the EE into the TE, it'd be the rift between Boromir and Aragorn. I never understood the true meaning and emotion of that scene till I came here, and I'm pessimistically believing that I'll never be able to appreciate that scene as much as you do... 
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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What an eloquent and heartfelt post, Eowyn! I don't know that I completely share your perspective, however. For those of us who had read the books many times over the years, one of the challenges of watching the films was letting go of our expectations and allowing ourselves to recognize that despite the changes in Jackson's adaptations, the films were indeed artistic masterpieces in their own right. Many Tolkien readers on this board, myself included, had the experience of not being sure whether we liked FOTR or not the first time we saw it, and for some people, reconciliation to the changes (such as the substitution of Arwen for Glorfindel) took a long time. For me, it was the second time through FOTR the movie, not the first, that I fell in love...with Elijah's portrayal of Frodo, with Viggo Mortensen as Aragorn, with the exquisite emotionalism of the breaking of the Fellowship.
In some ways I envy YOU coming fresh to the films with no preconceptions, which enabled you to be swept off your feet by the power of the story right away....
Not idly do the leaves of Lorien fall
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one of the challenges of watching the films was letting go of our expectations and allowing ourselves to recognize that despite the changes in Jackson's adaptations, the films were indeed artistic masterpieces in their own right.
True... thanks for helping me realise that, though I should've known it all along. For example, I expected Edoras to be a bit grander than it was - it looked like a Kievan Rus' (old Russian civilisation) village (in fact, my history teacher - a semi-Ringnut - even pointed that out when he showed the class a pictre of the buildings).
In some ways I envy YOU coming fresh to the films with no preconceptions, which enabled you to be swept off your feet by the power of the story right away....
 Oh, I was definitely swept off my feet. I was sitting up against my seat with my legs drawn up and my arms hugging them to my body - I only sit like that when I'm intrigued. The ride home was the first journey I had ever spent in utter silence, I was in such awe.
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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Lady, I almost didn't see the films. I have read the books many times over the last 30 years and I have a complete image of Middle Earth and all the characters in my head. Anybody who read the books first does. This is probably what you envy, the fact that we have our own personal version built by a combination of wonderfully descriptive writing and our own imaginations. I saw less than 5 minutes of Bakshi's version and stopped, not wanting those images to "pollute" the world in my head. When Jackson's version was announced, I thought long and hard about seeing it. Sight is a very strong sense, and I knew that if I saw someone else's version on screen, it had a strong possibility of overwriting my imagined version, and I didn't want that.
What I have found is that there are some overlaps, Jackson's vision has become mine in some parts, but in others, I can still read the book and have my own images in my head. Where the images are similar I have formed a merged version, but where they differ a lot I have two distinct mental images, one mine, the other Jackson's. They live side by side with little conflict.
Dobby likes me.
Dobby's a *beep* fag.
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the fact that we have our own personal version built by a combination of wonderfully descriptive writing and our own imaginations.
That is exactly what I envy. I've always felt that the films are beautiful but that they are one person's visual interpretation of the books, and that I should interpret the story on my own and not have someone do it all for me.
What I have found is that there are some overlaps, Jackson's vision has become mine in some parts, but in others, I can still read the book and have my own images in my head. Where the images are similar I have formed a merged version, but where they differ a lot I have two distinct mental images, one mine, the other Jackson's. They live side by side with little conflict.
Ditto. You've said it better than I ever could.
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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You read FOTR in 5 hours?!  You certainly read faster than I do.
I've only read LOTR once. I feel like a novice next to some of you.
Run, you pigeons! IT'S ROBERT FROST!!!
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Yeah... though I reread the Moria chapters several times over that night, since that was the climax of the film, and I tried to go slowly. It's really not that fast... 479 pages in 5 hours... 
READ IT AGAIN. That's a command from your boss!
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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You have got to be kidding me. It took me five days to read Stephen King's Misery (granted, it was on a camping trip), and it was only a little over 300 pages.
You indeed read quickly.
Run, you pigeons! IT'S ROBERT FROST!!!
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Why would I be kidding you? As Gandalf rides quickly when he is pressed, I read quickly when I am intrigued.
Well, your being on a camping trip majorly set other factors. I mean, during the second semester this past year, I read TTT over a period of four months. I began it in January and was barely at "The Voice of Saruman" by the end of May; when I had free time during summer, I finished it in one day. So camp, like school, takes up a lot of time. But anyway, I did my read in one big spree, no interruptions, so...
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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I meant you had to be kidding when you said you didn't read that fast; I assure you that you do.
I have such a short attention span it kills me. I can only read a half hour a time before getting up and walking around.
Run, you pigeons! IT'S ROBERT FROST!!!
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Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
I'm kind of weird when it comes to attention spans. I can sit still and concentrate in class, during debates, and while watching a film; but otherwise I'm fidgety and hyperactive!
In that case, Mouth, walk the dog while you read! Everyone's happy - as long as you don't run into things.
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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I was watching Chinatown last week and at a few points I started not paying attention. I lost the plot. Really frustrated me too, since I had to have it returned the day after.
I'd do that, Eowyn, but I'm not sure if my cat would appreciate being leashed up. 
Run, you pigeons! IT'S ROBERT FROST!!!
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Ouchies. *winces* If you don't mind my asking, are you ADD or ADHD? If so, you can take medication... (I'm not trying to pry; I'm just concerned)
Hey, I've seen a cat on a leash before! At the hospital (a program in which dogs and cats are comfort animals), but nonetheless... it was very odd, seeing a cat placidly on a leash!
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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MonarchOfDoom
(Mon Jul 14 00:03:57)
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| UPDATED Mon Jul 14 00:05:19 |
I could be ADD, come to think of it. I tend to fidget around a lot. When I was younger I had a rash of different nervous tics, many of them so odd it was comical. Is it hereditary? Don't know much about the disorder.
As for the movie, I've heard that the plot is reportedly very convulted and twists a lot, so I was comforted a little.
Run, you pigeons! IT'S ROBERT FROST!!!
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Hmm... I don't know if it's hereditary. I don't really know much about it, except the symptoms.
Such a comfort! At least you had a good excuse!
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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It's about a private detective investigating a case about a man cheating on his wife. From there, the plot extends out and twists so much he ends up visiting orange groves to see if the plants are faring OK. At that point I had a very confused look on my face.
Run, you pigeons! IT'S ROBERT FROST!!!
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 Uh... right! Now I'm confused! If you want to see a semi-random movie, see "Carousel." It's so random it's annoying!
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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The movie is also about a reservoir suspiciously draining water, so that explains the orange grove point.
I'll see a doctor about it. If I do turn out to have a hyperactive disorder I'm not sure if I'll want to depend on meds. They work, but it's not necessarily a good thing to depend on chemicals to keep you sane.
Run, you pigeons! IT'S ROBERT FROST!!!
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Why is there a reservoir in a film about an investigation uncovering adultery?!?
All righty... but sometimes you will want to be "sane" (as you aptly put it)... like, if you go out for a date or go to a funeral, or something. But I won't say anymore; whether or not you take medication is between you and your parents.
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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It's quite complicated. I wouldn't want to spoil anything for you if you ever feel the interest in watching it.
Considering I'll be a legal adult not too long from now, the parents will not be in that factor long. But I just wouldn't feel comfortable depending on meds.
Run, you pigeons! IT'S ROBERT FROST!!!
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Oh, okay. Thanks for your consideration.
Well, true... all right, as your boss, I'll just say do what you think is best for you. 
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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Hey Paul! elkie used your login again!
Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow,
Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow.
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LOL, Big V! And thanks, Paul is one of my message board heroes.
Dying is easy. Comedy is hard.
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elkie...mine too.
I have thoughts of a more constructive sort, but right now not the mindset to use them effectively.
Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow,
Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow.
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I'll just say wow. You said it far better than I could have. Music is a huge part of my life, and yet I don't always notice the music that goes along with a movie (especially when it's mostly instrumental), but these soundtracks definitely caught my attention. Hats off to Howard Shore--he truly caught the feel of ME in his music and the music is so passionate and stirring. I especially love the Brige of Khazad dum--very intense and you're on the edge of your seat just listening to the music remembering their flight to the bridge.
I would like to step out of my heart and go walking beneath the enormous sky.
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Hmmm, let's see. Looking at my iTunes library, sorted by play count. My top ten most often played tracks:
1. The Bridge of Khazad Dum (Howard Shore)
(tie) Concerning Hobbits (Howard Shore)
3. The Ring Goes South (Howard Shore)
4. Gollum's Song (Howard Shore)
5. Mars Attacks Main Titles (Danny Elfman)
6. The Breaking of the Fellowship (Fran Walsh and Howard Shore) *
7. Mamma Mia (Abba)
8. Men In Black Main Titles (Danny Elfman)
9. Foundations of Stone (Howard Shore)
10. Parade of Charioteers from Ben Hur (Míklos Rósza)
* This one should probably be higher...yesterday alone I must have played it ten times in a row but hit the "back track" button before reaching the literal end of the track, before the play count incremented.
Dying is easy. Comedy is hard.
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Again, wow, what an insightful post :)
There were many things well said in it, but the one that stood out for me was the:
"The bridge between FOTR and TTT is much more definitive than the bridge between TTT and ROTK".
I couldn't agree more. The last 10 mintues are the ones I find myself putting the DVD on again to see over and over.
And the bit I find the most moving is where Frodo is just stood there, staring ahead into space, his upturned palm with the Ring just sat on it (rather than in it, which I think is rather poignant) and then "his replaying of Gandalf's words in his mind" - that bit just sets me off. The slight deviation and follow-through of the music at the point we hear Immortal Gandalf's words of mortal wisdom, is just incredible. And the ever-so slight reaction we see in Frodo's eyes as he hears Gandalf right before it cuts to Ian Mckellen.
That bit alone is proof, and irrefutable proof, enough, that there is so much emotion involved within the films. These people who speak to the contrary make me want to slap them because I find it extremely difficult to believe how people can be so wrong about something that is so evident.
But great post again - and one I enjoyed reading through the second and third times as much as I did the first.
Few scenes in my life or moments mean more to me, than our fine night
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Oy, what a moving scene! We're fresh off of Boromir's death, and here's Frodo, channeling his mentor and friend, who died for him.
Oh, my heart breaks. Frodo makes this incredible sacrifice, deciding to go to Mordor alone, thinking that by doing so he'll be sparing his friends. But it all goes awry. First Merry and Pippin must sacrifice themselves. Then Frodo must be reminded of Gandalf's sacrifice. AND THEN SAM! Of course, Frodo is able to rescue Sam, and I think that's what we see in Frodo's eyes as they sit in the boat, that here at last he was able to not lose his friend, where all the others (as far as he knows) are gone, and on his behalf, too.
Excuse me, I'm getting a little verklempt.
Thanks for the kind words, Corsten!
Dying is easy. Comedy is hard.
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"Of course, Frodo is able to rescue Sam, and I think that's what we see in Frodo's eyes as they sit in the boat, that here at last he was able to not lose his friend, where all the others (as far as he knows) are gone, and on his behalf, too"
Absolutely :)
"Thanks for the kind words, Corsten!"
Well, that's what you get when you say all good stuff like that and stuff and that ;P
Few scenes in my life or moments mean more to me, than our fine night
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Ikalliance, that was the most well written piece of commentary I've read concerning these films. You truly are at the top of the class of these boards.
Well done.
Kevin
If you have walked all these days with closed ears and mind asleep,wake up now!
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Thanks, Kevin. I don't know if anyone can truly claim that title, there are too many posters here that contribute too many insanely great ideas.
But you and all the others that have said such complimentary things of this post have made it that much more worthwhile. If no one else was enjoying what I was posting, I would have been better served just to sit and think it rather than post it. So thanks to everyone.
Dying is easy. Comedy is hard.
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Uinen
(Sun Jul 13 15:02:04)
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Another amazing post...you should have your Good Posts section like Paul Hawthorne does . I had only noticed a few of the things you mentioned by myself (Aragorn's look while putting on Boromir's guards, and Legolas's look when Aragorn tells them to "hunt some orc"), but now that I look back, it's all true, down to the very last bit. Good job, LK, I definitely applaud .
You need to get a girl, mate...
-POTC 
Pick me! Pick me!
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I like the way LK described that part: the look in Legolas' eyes is fierce. I'll have to remember that so I can steal it to use in my own posts. *mental note: fierce...*
I fear not the shadows of Men
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Stunningly written, Elkie, and spot on with my opinions too!
When I was what you might call a "casual" fan, it was Moria that caught my eye most - I would watch the Moria sequence perhaps four times a week, just for the visuals and effects. But I gradually came to find the death of Boromir much superior, even though it is free of revolutionary effects, loud music and the rest.
The short space of time between Gimli coming up and leaning on his axe, and Frodo getting into the boat is pure perfection. Aragorn with tears running down his face, Gimli leaning on his axe and lowering his eyes, and that music, the slow Fellowship theme on horns, then cut to Frodo standing on the shore.........yeah. Perfect. No question. I actually feel sorry for people who dislike these films because they cannot appreciate scenes like these.
And on that note, I think I might go and watch that very scene!
The Audrey Two is not a healthy girl!
Strictly between us, neither is the Audrey One!
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Wonderful post, Elkie. You clarified what I was feeling, and to interprete another's unexpressed emotion requires a lot of skill.
The fool looks at a finger that points at the sky...
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NastyBoy
(Sun Jul 13 20:06:24)
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| UPDATED Sun Jul 13 20:07:21 |
I've often argued that LOTR is all about the hobbits, their growth from naive backwoods hicks to self-sufficient determiners of their own destiny, and principally, Sam shows the most evidence of that growth, from humble gardener to most influential member of Hobbit society for many many years, being responsible for the rebuilding of the Shire, Chief Shirrif, mayor, the list goes on and on. LK makes a great observation that Sam is Everyman, there's a little bit of Sam in all of us, and I believe this is one of the many reasons so many identify so closely with the story. We not only become immersed in the land and the story, but also in the characters, and particularly in Sam.
Another screen creation that has been enormously successful and popular also contains a character that is Everyman, someone that I have heard described many times by many people as having a little bit in all of us. That's Homer Simpson. There is indeed a lot of Homer in many people I know, and there is also some of Sam. Does that mean that we are all walking amalgams of Sam and Homer, just in varying proportions?
Mmmmmmmm... taters....
Dobby likes me.
Dobby's a *beep* fag.
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My thoughts posted! Simply amazing.
Can't stress enough how much revelant this post was. Bravo.
Run, you pigeons! IT'S ROBERT FROST!!!
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As ever Elkie excellent post, I need a bit of time to digest and will hopefully reply at some point in the near future.
www.oxfam.org Lets give peace a chance !
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A little bump for a wnderful thread.
I don't really have anything to add, except to chalk up another vote for Boromir's death scene as one of finest in the movie. For me, Aragorn's rejection of the ring was less about a decision to take the path of kingship and more about his overcoming his perceived internal weaknesse. It was the moment when he realised he would not be subject to the fate of Isildur, overcoming the concerns he voiced to Arwen earlier in the film. I saw his decision to assume the mantle meant for him most clearly in his reactions as Boromir lay dying and proclaimed him his king.
The performances in FOTR engaged me wonderfully, but none more so than Sean Bean's. While the others fleshed out the characters as much as I could have hoped (Ian Mackellan particularly), he was the one actor who actually made more of the role than I expected.
"in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing"
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Something I noticed the other night...moments after Aragorn rejects the Ring, he faces the Uruk-hai. He backs himself up the steps of the Seat of Seeing, then hurls himself off the platform on top of the orcs, calling out "Elendil!" as he does so -- the first time we see Aragorn embrace his lineage rather than reject it.
I was pleasantly surprised by Sean Bean as well, and I'm interested to see him in Troy.
Dying is easy. Comedy is hard.
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El_Kenny
(Sun Jul 27 09:36:28)
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| UPDATED Sun Jul 27 11:29:23 |
LK I realized something: If a person doesn't like the changes from book to film, (specially in TTT) fine. But a person that still thinks the changes did NOT enhance the movie after reading your detalied analysis is just MEGA stubborn and close minded. You are the man.
PS: B4 any users bash me, remember that I said that it's fine not to like it, but saying the movie wasn't enhanced is a different thing.
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"I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew..."
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sinaes
(Tue Aug 5 01:39:45)
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I'm like a good haines t-shirt: tagless
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 Oog make mission statement.
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sinaes
19 hours ago (Tue Aug 19 02:16:24)
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I'm like a good haines t-shirt: tagless
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