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CTS-1
(Sun Jul 13 15:18:07)
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Hello, Everyone:
In this thread, I invite discussion on the topic of one of Sauron’s great miscalculations. No, not assuming that the worst case scenario during the War of the Ring was Gandalf, Galadriel, or Aragorn showing up with The Ring and attempting to use it, instead of the possibility that two Halflings would sneak The Ring all the way to Mount Doom (although that has some relevance); I am referring to Sauron’s earlier miscalculation regarding the effects of sending the forces of Numenor against the Undying Lands. While his attempt to bring down the Dunedain kingdom succeeded beyond Sauron’s imaginings, he himself suffered from the extent of the (literally) world-changing fallout.
The story of Sauron as the “primum mobile” of Ar-Pharazon’s foolish and suicidal quest is well known. Sauron, still capable of assuming a fair form (his capacity as a maiar to assume any form he chose had not been diminished yet) was taken prisoner after his entire army fled in the face of Ar-Pharazon’s superior force. Taken to Numenor, he quickly corrupted the minds of the ruling Numenoreans more than the previous ten centuries’ fear of death and envy over the immortality present just over the horizon had managed to. Persecution, violence, Melkor worship- these all followed in the wake of the fair-seeming Sauron having Ar-Pharazon’s ear. Finally, at the crescendo of this corruption, Sauron convinced the Numenoreans to launch their doomed campaign against the Undying Lands. Sauron, wisely, stayed behind in Numenor, in what he thought was safety.
Tolkien states that Sauron naturally expected the entire Numenorean force to be quickly wiped out by the Valar and the Maiar, acting on their own volition. Sauron, sitting safely in Numenor, would then relish his triumph in leading the flower of Numenor, the descendants of his ancient enemies, to their destruction. But, he misread what Manwe would do. Instead of immediately wiping out the Numenoreans on his own authority, as expected, Manwe temporarily laid down his rulership and turned directly to the higher authority, Illuvatar. Illuvatar responded in ways that Manwe could not: he essentially re-made the world, removing the Undying Lands from human temptation and drowning Numenor in the process.
Sauron escaped Numenor, but was forever reduced in power. Like Melkor before him, he was no longer capable of assuming any form he chose, instead only able to appear as a terrible Dark Lord (until his encounter with Isildur).
This event, in my opinion, raises two questions: first, what were the negative effects to Sauron of his inability to assume a fair form? And second, what does this sequence of events, especially when his later actions are taken into account, have to say about Tolkien’s perceptions of the strengths and weaknesses of a thought process devoted to evil?
First, I would like to share my perception of the damaging effects of the loss of Sauron’s ability to assume a fair form in the service of evil. To someone who is only familiar with LOTR, this may seem like a strange question, as there was little doubt in LOTR about Sauron’s intent, nor any attempt to hide that intent. But, that was the Sauron after he had lost the ability to appear fair. However, if one looks at the Second Age, when Sauron inherited the mission of Morgoth and when he still had the capacity to appear in a fair form, his greatest accomplishments were made through lies and fraud, not force. It was through a “generous” alter ego, Annatar, that Sauron convinced Celebrimbor to make the Rings. It was deceit and lies that launched Ar-Pharazon’s expedition. In fact, while he managed to inflict grievous damage to his opponents in the process, Sauron lost every war he fought in the Second Age; he even had an army desert him.
Which brings up several questions. Could the Last Alliance have been formed if it did not have an obvious Dark Lord as its enemy? Could Sauron have tried some type of political maneuver to, for instance, split the Dwarfs away from the Alliance, making Moria neutral or even in his service (after all, Tolkien said that Elves were the only race where everyone fought on one side, so Sauron already had some Dwarfs in his service, presumably not of Durin’s line)? With a fair-seeming Annatar type leading Carn Dum, would isolation and corruption of the statelets which succeeded Arnor have been even more successful, and at a lower cost? In the end, I submit that Sauron accomplished more with fraud than with force- even his corruption of Denethor would fit into this category. In the end, obvious evil using force can be opposed much more easily than subtle evil using lies, fraud and deceit; the subtle, lying evil in fair form can do much more damage. Hence the inexplicable success of Britney Spears.
What I find to be of even more interest is what this event says about how Sauron thinks, especially when put in light of his subsequent actions during the War of the Ring. I suggest the following reason to explain Sauron’s miscalculations. First, start with the premise that Sauron is brilliant, like a high-end Maia, but also thoroughly evil. Since he is totally evil (and power-hungry, and self-absorbed, and all the corollary personality traits Tolkien ascribes to evil), he really cannot comprehend how good people (or Valar, or Elves) will act in some circumstances. His frame of reference is limited to how he would act under a given set of circumstances; as a result, he does not take into account the full range of possible actions by his opponents. This habit proves to be disasterous.
Consider the situation with Ar-Pharazon’s attack. Manwe had the capacity to wipe out the Numenorean expedition if he chose. It is simple- send in Tulkas and Orome and their associated Maiar, and follow up by sending the Vanyar in to clean up what is left. And that is exactly what Sauron would have done in those same circumstances. Sauron knew that Manwe had the capacity to contact Illuvatar regarding this situation, but never really took the possibility into account- precisely because, in the same situation, he would simply use the overwhelming force at hand. That miscalculation is what cost him one of his best weapons; in the future, his evil had to be transparent.
Which brings me back to the War of the Ring. Tolkien made Sauron’s miscalculation there obvious: Sauron’s aim was to find the Ring before it came to someone who might have the will and the desire to use it against him. Sauron’s worst nightmare would be The Ring on Saruman’s hand, although he would have dreaded to see it with anybody with the knowledge and capacity to use it against him. Even if The Ring might destroy another holder and Sauron might regain it, if it showed up on, say, Gandalf’s hand, it might be a very long servitude indeed before Sauron ended up on top again.
Sauron devised his strategy based on the above premises. Why? I submit that Sauron was simply not capable of contemplating what did happen until it was too late. It was, in effect, a perceptual blind spot. Sauron attempts to predict the behavior of his enemies not by analyzing their character and attempting to predict their actions based on their traits, but rather asks the question: what would I do in the same circumstances? Sauron, when presented with a trinket of great power, would attempt to figure out how to use it to further his own power, and then use it without any moral qualms. While brilliant, Sauron’s thinking is thus constrained by his own evil and power-hungry megalomania. I suggest that, more than a mere oversight, Sauron was not capable of guessing what the forces of good were up to, because he cannot really comprehend any thought process alien to his own.
So, what is Tolkien trying to say about the nature of evil, and evil thoughts? Perhaps that evil geniuses have flaws in their thinking, so matter how brilliant they may be. Characteristics of evil, the emphasis on the acquisition of power for its own sake and its attendant megalomania, essentially constrain their ability to predict possible outcomes. It is very difficult for someone to “think outside the box,” when the box in question is one of their own making.
So, what does everyone else think?
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Ar-Pharazon, the downfall of Numenor, Sauron's role in it and the culmination of the Second Age are my favorite parts of the history, CTS.
I've got to digest what you've written here for a bit!
Dying is easy. Comedy is hard.
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It's long isn't it?
What strikes me is the seeming parallel with Hitler our international tourist. He used lies and deciets early on in the game but dropped all pretence once the invasion of Russia was underway. Later, when the Russians fought all the way back to Germany's borders, his meglomania caused him to delude himself with the idea that he had secret "super weapons" ready to be used at any time and that a miracle would happen. The alliance would fall and he'd be saved. When the US president died he was delighted and fooled himself into thinking that deliverance for him and the germanic people was at hand. He never realised that as far as the west was concerned, it was business as usual.
"Circles and rings, Dragons and Kings.
Weaving a charm and a spell"
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CTS-1
(Mon Jul 14 05:15:20)
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Hmmm.. Never thought of the compaarison before in that way.
Look- he's trying to think!
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Uinen
(Mon Jul 14 21:38:20)
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Wow, CTS...this is amazing! I took the reading really slow, to figure out what exactly you were saying. And I have a few points/ideas, so bear with me.
Forkbeard, good call with the Hitler point. I also have one. Has anyone read the Left Behind books, or possibly, studied Revelation of the Bible? If so, you will know what I'm going to say. The Left Behind series is an interpretation of Revelation, because Revelation is so hard to understand. The jist of it is that the Antichrist will slowly gain respect and woo the world with his words and they will seem right. Then he will show his true nature (pure evil, and later be the body of Satan, basically), but the world will be so hooked on his words that they will not think his ideas and ways are wrong. You have to understand that when I say the world, I mean those who are not born-again Christians...Revelation says this will happen after Christ's second coming to Earth, and the Christians are taken to heaven. But that's not the point. I'm saying that Sauron's character is much like what is prophecied in Revelation. I understand that Tolkien didn't like allegory (we all know that), but there is a similarty.
First, what were the negative effects to Sauron of his inability to assume a fair form?
Well, what do you mean by 'fair form'? If you mean a beautiful body, then that much is obvious. People are, at first glance, repulsed by an extremely ugly person. It could be hard to get people to listen to you if you are very unattractive (although, look at some of the weirdos out there today...many of them, you can't take your eyes off of because they're so ugly, and you are riveted by their words after getting used to their looks, which in turn leads to the point in my last paragraph). If you mean any form at all, that gets a bit tougher. It could be hard for people to listen to just a spirit speaking to them. That's a common thing with negativity against religion today, people don't like the idea of believing in something that's not tangible. Another effect could be that he just wasn't strong enough to overcome all the 'good in the world'. An example is Voldemort from HP. He was not strong without a body, and it was impossible to get his hands on Harry without a body, or someone to do it for him. And from this last point, it's sometimes hard to get people to follow just a voice, spirit, or will, if they're not familiar with it.
And second, what does this sequence of events, especially when his later actions are taken into account, have to say about Tolkien’s perceptions of the strengths and weaknesses of a thought process devoted to evil?
This answer came very naturally to me. I think that Tolkien's perceptions were basically, "What comes around, goes around." That may seem too simple, and it could be. But on the surface that's all there is. The evil guys get what they deserve. One of Sauron's flaws was that he couldn't see "the good guys' " plans in his head, or their reactions to his actions. So that was his downfall. I think his view was just that good overcomes evil. Sorry if that's a little too vague, but I think that sums it up  .
And second, what does this sequence of events, especially when his later actions are taken into account, have to say about Tolkien’s perceptions of the strengths and weaknesses of a thought process devoted to evil?
You need to get a girl, mate...
-POTC 
Pick me! Pick me!
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CTS-1
(Tue Jul 15 19:07:00)
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When I referred to "fair form," I was referring to Sauron's alter ego, Annatar. By looking good, sounding like a friend, and giving some knowledge, Sauron perpeptuated the greatest con games of the Second Age: getting Celebrimbor and his associates to forge the Rings, and the Numenorean attack on Valinor.
I propose that Sauron accomplished far more by fraud than he ever did by force.
Look- he's trying to think!
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Uinen
(Tue Jul 15 19:10:11)
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Well, then I agree. My Left Behind/Revelation example goes with that, I think.
"Has anyone read the Left Behind books, or possibly, studied Revelation of the Bible? If so, you will know what I'm going to say. The Left Behind series is an interpretation of Revelation, because Revelation is so hard to understand. The jist of it is that the Antichrist will slowly gain respect and woo the world with his words and they will seem right. Then he will show his true nature (pure evil, and later be the body of Satan, basically), but the world will be so hooked on his words that they will not think his ideas and ways are wrong. You have to understand that when I say the world, I mean those who are not born-again Christians...Revelation says this will happen after Christ's second coming to Earth, and the Christians are taken to heaven. But that's not the point. I'm saying that Sauron's character is much like what is prophecied in Revelation. I understand that Tolkien didn't like allegory (we all know that), but there is a similarity."
You need to get a girl, mate...
-POTC
Pick me! Pick me!
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CTS-1
(Wed Jul 16 22:28:15)
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 UPDATED Thu Jul 17 08:32:21 |
Indeed, Tolkien hated allegory, and even though he stated the books had a Catholic mood in them, anything that direct- not his style.
I think the comparison ends with the level of success Sauron has as a revealed Dark Lord, or as a general for that matter:
Sauron takes on Beren and Luthien- lost
War of the Elves and Sauron- lost, but did destroy Hollin.
Numenorean Invasion- army deserted, captured, but turned it to his advantage.
War of the Last Alliance- lost
War of Angmar v. Arnor's successor statelets- draw (both sides destroyed).
Battle of Pelennor Fields- lost
War of the Ring- lost
The Antichrist still has equal power after he is revealed. Sauron's greatest triumphs all came as a result of fraud. When he used force alone, he didn't accomplish much of permanence. But when the dark lord came as a man of peace, or the Lord of Gifts, that was when he managed some real evil.
Look- he's trying to think!
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Wow that is a lot to digest, CTS. But while I think about it, how about a nice BUMP!
"I forbid you maidens all...To travel to Carterhaugh, for young Tam Lin is there"
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One of his most effective methods was rooting out Amandil's opposition.
Ar-Pharazon was really an illegitimate King, anyway, with his forced marriage to the Queen of Numenor.
I would have followed you my brother  my captain  my king  Boromir
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were the negative effects to Sauron of his inability to assume a fair form?
Well, he could no longer entice or bribe people into his service or to do his will. He could no longer assume the role of Annatar, the Lord of Gifts. Since Sauron was now able to assume the form of a Dark Lord, the only way he could bend people under his power was to terrify or blackmail them. This is definitely not to his advantage, because as Annatar, people were willing to listen - and thus be corrupted - to him. However, as a result of his undeniable terror, those who served him were constantly afraid of him, and even despised him... as did the Orcs.
what does this sequence of events, especially when his later actions are taken into account, have to say about Tolkien’s perceptions of the strengths and weaknesses of a thought process devoted to evil?
I'm not quite sure. I think you are correct in saying that Sauron could no longer judge or predict anything good, since he was wholly evil. His malice blinded him, essentially.
Perhaps Tolkien was saying that with evil and power comes pride, and Sauron's pride - though reduced by the drowning of Númenor - was his blind spot. The blind spot in the human eye is located at the back of the eye, where the retina and the optic nerve are connected - that is where rods and cones (which allow you to perceive colour and depth) are not present. The optic nerve sends messages to the brain, which is (of course) the mental factory. Since the One Ring was made in Orodruin, one can say that Mt. Doom could be - in this far-off
analogy - the "brain," the factory. Sauron surely did not believe that anyone could bear the Ring to Mt. Doom; the Eye scanned all nearby land except near Cirith Ungol and around Mt. Doom. Cirith Ungol was, in a literal sense, Sauron's blind spot. To complete this absurd analogy, one could say that Frodo and Sam's journey was the optic nerve.
(sorry for the short response, I'll get more in-depth later)
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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All right... I said I'd go in more depth later, and so I am. Just as a side note, though, I won't tread old paths by repeating or adding on to what I said earlier.
Could the Last Alliance have been formed if it did not have an obvious Dark Lord as its enemy?
Assuming that Sauron was "an obvious Dark Lord" by declaring himself openly and waging open war, I do think that the Last Alliance could have been formed. The Last Alliance - consisting of Men, Elves, and Moria Dwarves (as I interpreted a certain passage from "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" in "The Silmarillion") - was made because
Elendil and Gil-galad [...] perceived that Sauron would grow too strong and would overcome all his enemies, one by one, if they did not unite against him. Therefore they made that League which is called the Last Alliance[...] ("Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age")
But even if Elendil and Gil-galad did not know of Sauron himself (which is unlikely, considering the corruption of Númenórë), they surely would have noticed the evil things happening in Mordor; and the armies attacking Minas Ithil and Osgiliath had to be led by someone. Therefore, they would not be allying against Sauron, but against the evil armies in general. The Alliance wouldn't have worked very well if there were no "obvious Dark Lord," since the Free Peoples would have but a general idea as to where they should focus their stronger legions; but the league would have been made, nevertheless.
Could Sauron have tried some type of political maneuver to, for instance, split the Dwarfs away from the Alliance, making Moria neutral or even in his service (after all, Tolkien said that Elves were the only race where everyone fought on one side, so Sauron already had some Dwarfs in his service, presumably not of Durin’s line)?
I'm assuming you are referring to the Dwarves (Tolkien's spelling ) who fought alongside the Men and Elves. No, Sauron had no Dwarves of Durin's line in his service. In "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age," it is said
Of the Dwarves few fought upon either side; but the kindred of Durin of Moria fought against Sauron.
But anyway, back to your question. Sauron could have tried, but I think that it would have been a vain effort. It is said, several times in "The Silmarillion," that the Dwarves are slow to defeat and slow to be corrupted. As we know, in the Third Age Sauron did attempt to sway the Dwarves of Erebor in his desire for knowledge of Bilbo and his Ring; he promised them the realm of Moria. The Dwarves were reluctant to say "yea" or "nay," and they withstood the evil and surely terrifying voice of the messenger. It is unlikely that Sauron could have persuaded the Dwarves in the Alliance to leave the Men and Elves, though he might have eventually given up speaking fairly and resorted to trying to terrify them.
Sauron attempts to predict the behavior of his enemies not by analyzing their character and attempting to predict their actions based on their traits, but rather asks the question: what would I do in the same circumstances? Sauron, when presented with a trinket of great power, would attempt to figure out how to use it to further his own power, and then use it without any moral qualms.
When I read the above portion, I immediately thought, "Boromir!" If he were offered the Ring, he would definitely have endeavored to use it against the Enemy - and not just for defense of Gondor but also for offense in battle. (in other words, he wouldn't have been content using the Ring to defend Gondor, he'd have gone to Mordor to do battle with Sauron's armies)
Perhaps Sauron is justified for thinking, "What would I do in the same circumstances?" He knew that Men were greatly weakened after Akallabêth. Yes, while the Elf-friends were probably the majority of the Númenoreans who survived the drowning of Númenórë, they intermarried with those of lesser blood (the Men who dwelt in Middle-earth before Akallabêth). Consequently, many of their offspring were not as strong in heart, mind, or body as their predecessors (though the line of Elendil remained true). They were therefore more susceptible to evil and not learnt in lore enough to know not to repeat history. The Elves, in "The Silmarillion," thought that Men were more like Melkor than any other Vala. Now, after their mixing noble blood with lesser blood, they were more like Melkor's lieutenant Sauron, once they were less strong-willed. Sauron may have known their now-present weakness, and was thus partially justified for his thinking process.
So, what is Tolkien trying to say about the nature of evil, and evil thoughts?
Well... I already elaborated somewhat on this in my first attempt to take a stab. I know my first message wasn't very clear, so I'll wrap it up in a nutshell: Those who have evil thoughts have twisted knots in their thinking process; they are incapable of thinking otherwise, and are thus blinded by their evil.
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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CTS-1
(Wed Jul 16 18:12:11)
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I never considered Sauron's thought process twisted, just limited and constrained; it functioned very well within its own constraints.
Look- he's trying to think!
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I know. That was just my own way of saying it.
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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You've nailed what I've viewed as a key part of Tolkien's portrayal (view?) of evil, particularly at the end:
So, what is Tolkien trying to say about the nature of evil, and evil thoughts? Perhaps that evil geniuses have flaws in their thinking, so matter how brilliant they may be. Characteristics of evil, the emphasis on the acquisition of power for its own sake and its attendant megalomania, essentially constrain their ability to predict possible outcomes. It is very difficult for someone to “think outside the box,” when the box in question is one of their own making.
One of the most interesting thoughts that I've had from the book was regarding Sauron's inability to anticipate his enemies. Some people have thought it was a plot hole or that Sauron was incredibly stupid to not at least consider the possibility of his Ring being destroyed. But knowing how carefully Tolkien constructed the story, I'm confident that this is intentional and does make a powerful statement about the nature of evil.
I believe that Gandalf even says words to this effect at some point, but the idea is that while good can comprehend the mind of evil (even if it doesn't subscribe to its policies), the converse is impossible. The virtuous mind can understand greed or lust for power; in this sense a thoroughly corrupted mind is almost predictiable, though it isn't that easy in real life. Even if one frequently acts with compassion and selflessness, it is understandable that some people will only act for themselves and won't mind the harming of others in the process. Yet for the mind of evil, the one that is completely self-centered and cares nothing for the harm it causes in trying to achieve its goals, it cannot comprehend the motives of a person who gives without thought of reward. This is a mind that cares only for profits and everything in life is a calculation. The concept of a person that performs acts that are not in favor of, or even against, self-interest is an enigma.
This is the blind spot of Sauron. By his very nature he is incapable of understanding sacrifice and a desire to help the world over yourself. Consider Gandalf's stand against the Balrog - had Sauron been watching I expect he would be thinking "Fool, this is what you get for trying to help these pathetic mortals." And look at the physical, mental and emotional abuse that Frodo volunteers for at the Council of Elrond. Sitting among the greats in that room he could easily keep quiet and expect someone like Aragorn or Glorfindel to take the mission - in a couple of weeks he'd be back in his hobbit hole with a full belly and a pipe full of smoke. One of the most moving passages in the book is when Frodo explains to Sam how some must give up things so that others may have them.
Sauron, with a twisted mind that can only conceive of how to expand his own power, cannot even conceive of someone taking his Ring and willingly casting it away, much less seek to destroy it. Even knowing that "the good guys" aren't seeking to rule Middle-earth, they still have a dangerous foe to contend with and huge armies arrayed agains them - the idea of destroying the one thing that could offer them a chance of victory is just too radical a notion for Sauron's selfish mind.
(Side note: at the Q&A at TORn, one person asked about how could Sauron be so stupid, and added, even if he couldn't anticipate the goal of the Fellowship, would it have killed him to post a couple of Orcs at the entrance to the one place in Middle-earth where his precious Ring could be destroyed? The answer that I was impressed by, after covering the discussion of evil nature, was that Sauron was actually correctto have no fear of a mortal walking into the Cracks of Doom and tossing the Ring in. As it turned out it was an act that Frodo was incapable of, the Ring overthrew his will, and had Gollum not intervened Sauron would have quickly reclaimed his prize.)
What I was fascinated by, CTS, was reflecting on Sauron's involvement in the Downfall of Numenore as another critical miscalculation on his part. I'd never considered this in the context of the thesis written above, and it's an excellent thought! I liked your description very much - it was obvious to Sauron that the Valar would crush the mortal upstarts. The idea of them laying aside their own power and appealing to a higher authority would be as far from his mind as the intention to destroy the Ring.
I would snare not even an orc with a falsehood. 
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CTS-1
(Tue Jul 15 19:53:25)
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Very nicely put.
I don't really conceive of Sauron's mind as twisted, so much as very linear and constrained. The nature of his desires affects his ability to guess the actions of others who do not think like him.
I think we are in agreement on the core nature, but are just using different terminology.
Look- he's trying to think!
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Yeah, I just threw "twisted" in as a lazy adjective that often accompanies "evil" and "dominating". It's actually something I watch for, in my writing and other people's, how frequently words are used because they're often seen in combination together.
I hadn't done any on-topic stuff in a while and I thought that your post was very worthy of the effort, so I'm glad that you liked it.
I would snare not even an orc with a falsehood.
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On the other side of this coin you have Manwe, who did not understand evil. Because he was so good and unable to comprehend it, he was deceived into unchaining Melkor. His lack of understanding led to suffering and destruction because he did not realize what he was up against.
I would like to step out of my heart and go walking beneath the enormous sky.
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Uinen
(Tue Jul 15 20:33:28)
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Aha! Good point.
You need to get a girl, mate...
-POTC
Pick me! Pick me!
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CTS-1
(Tue Jul 15 22:19:54)
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True. Exasperation with the Valar's blind spots has already been touched on in several threads. Perhaps I should try to consolidate it sometime and centralize the discussion.
Look- he's trying to think!
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I really like this topic of Sauron damaging himself when destroying Numenor. I think it relates very well to a theme set forth all the way back at the music of the Ainur. (What I'm gonna say right here I just read from Book of lost tales but I'm pretty sure its in the Silmorion too.) After they have sung the song and Melkor has added all the evil which was not of the theme of Illuvitar. Illuvitar said that allthough it was evil it would in the end only add to the beauty of the world. That all the bad things Melkor thought up would only serve to make the beutiful things all the more beutiful in the end. I think the Destruction of Numenor is one of the best examples of how an evil deed ultimately leads to the greater good. As you have already said it is quite likely that Sauron could have possibly been victorious if he had not been forced to use his "dark lord form". So it could ultimately be said that it was his wish to corrupt and destroy Numenor that lead to his downfall. It reall seems to be a perfect example of how evil acts will only lead to the greater good.
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CTS-1
(Thu Jul 24 08:42:24)
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...or, at the absolute minimum, how evil can wind up being self-defeating.
Somewhere or the other in there, I am sure that the third theme of the great music has some relevance.
Look- he's trying to think!
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"I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew..."
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sinaes
(Tue Aug 5 01:50:19)
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I'm like a good haines t-shirt: tagless 
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 Oog make mission statement.
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Not idly do the leaves of Lorien fall
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