Wow... I've just begun "Of the Third Age and the Rings of Power," or whatever the title is today. I anticipate finishing "The Sil" by tomorrow...
At first I didn't like it because it was written in a different style than was used in LotR, but then I got used to it... and it took me until reading about Túrin to figure out that I love reading this book!  Oy, silly Éowyn!
The most screwed-up people in "The Sil": Fëanor and Ar-Pharazôn (or however the circumflex geos). The most pitiable people: Túrin, Níniel, and Beren.
What do you people think about "The Sil"?
 You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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CTS-1
(Sat Jun 21 13:14:27)
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I enjoyed the Silmarillion greatly.
Although I consider Finrod much more worthy of pity than Turin. I would also add Maedhros and Maglor to the pity list. Tragic heroes, driven to perform foul, evil deeds as the result of an oath they grew to loathe? Good stuff...
Look- he's trying to think!
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Maedhros and Maglor...? True, you gotta pity them...
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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CTS-1
(Sat Jun 21 13:29:20)
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And you can't forget Miriel Serinde for screwed up people. That whole family was dysfunctional.
Look- he's trying to think!
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 I felt sorry for her... stupid Ar-Pharazôn! 
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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CTS-1
(Sat Jun 21 13:33:30)
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That is Tar-Miriel.
Miriel Serende was Feanor's mother, the one who decided it was better to, in effect, die than deal with Feanor.
Sure, she might have had a point, but it is still pretty messed up.
Look- he's trying to think!
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Oh, that Miriel... Athene once observed that Fëanor's general screwiness may be because Elves placed such an emphasis on children being raised by two parents...
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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CTS-1
(Sat Jun 21 14:06:02)
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An interesting thought. That still doesn't explain why the Vanyar are such a bunch of boring, tail-kissing goody goody rules followers, though.
Look- he's trying to think!
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What - you prefer the Noldor because they're more adventurous and interesting?
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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CTS-1
(Sat Jun 21 14:19:08)
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Precisely. Or the Avari because they wanted to run their own lives.
The Vanyar are cyphers. Virtuous, but uninteresting. All they can do is tell Manwe how great he is, a point which I question. The decision to bring the elves to Valinor- Ulmo had it right, IMO.
Look- he's trying to think!
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Yeah, I like the Avari best... but I didn't like the Noldor that much. They were... overreactive.
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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CTS-1
(Sat Jun 21 14:34:00)
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...and more arrogant than the Avari. But, they did have better weapons.
Look- he's trying to think!
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Well, that can only be expected of the Noldor...
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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I love the sil ! Where LotR was a step up from the hobbit, the sil is a step up from LotR. Utterly brilliant stuff. I agree with your opinions of the characters and will go on to say that Feanor was barking mad.
"They say that life's a carousel, spinning fast you've got to ride it well."
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I think it is AMAZING!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAH! AMAZING!!!
Hey, why's everyone looking at me?........this is the Bakshi board, I can act like this! 
And wasn't the Númenor portion just poetic?! Sigh. My homeland, now sadly under The Sea. Stupid Valar.
The Audrey Two is not a healthy girl!
Strictly between us, neither is the Audrey One!
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I just read Akallabêth today... you stinkin' Númenoreans... that Ar-Pharazôn guy was a nutcase!
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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He was a bit.  I tried to talk him out of his little excursion to Valinor, but he wouldn't listen. If it wasn't for him the Sun would shine still on the lovely Meneltarma! Alas! Still, shows you why he doesn't get "The Great" appended to his surname, doesn't it?!
The Audrey Two is not a healthy girl!
Strictly between us, neither is the Audrey One!
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Well, you were a bit of a rogue, too, Tar!
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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Heh. Well. I didn't do much, just spoke out against a ruling set down by the Gods - but haven't I been punished enough?!
The Audrey Two is not a healthy girl!
Strictly between us, neither is the Audrey One!
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Oh... I suppose. Yes, being beaten hands-down 99,998 times by a girl from Rohan is pretty embarrassing... 
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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Especially since she's 16 days younger than me!
The Audrey Two is not a healthy girl!
Strictly between us, neither is the Audrey One!
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You're just testing me, aren't you! My probation ends on July the 2nd, btw!
Yes... that little fact makes it all the more embarrassing! 
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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2nd July?!  Sheesh, what did I do that was so nice?!
The Audrey Two is not a healthy girl!
Strictly between us, neither is the Audrey One!
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I forgot... but it was something very nice.  Something like... hmm... let me check my PM inbox to see if anything jars my memory.
Trust me on this, Tar!
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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Tar-Atanamir
(Sat Jun 21 13:57:57)
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 UPDATED Sat Jun 21 13:59:31 |
Oh I will, I will!
EDIT: I found it - does that earn me another 16 days?!
The Audrey Two is not a healthy girl!
Strictly between us, neither is the Audrey One!
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Found what?
Oh yeah, I know why you earned 16 days... you helped me get the profile of someone... I think you know who.
You're just desperate to keep me on probation, aren't you! 
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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Lord_Natrone
(Sat Jun 21 14:52:42)
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| UPDATED Sat Jun 21 14:59:24 |
Yeah, talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Couldn't they just have done some strategicly placed smiting on the real bad apples, like other gods always do, instead of cracking the ocean floor and burying our perfect island (Actually I think Iluvatar was responsible for that last bit)?
Of course our people were always doomed because Tolkien wrote the Akallabeth as his own working of the Atlantis myth. The good part is that the Faithful, led by Elendil, made it to the shores of Middle-earth.
Alhough the Numenoreans had already colonized ME and were there in large numbers, working with the native peoples, just think of how history might have been different if Elendil's group had not escaped the Downfall. Those nine ships carried Elendil and his sons, as well as many other men who were among the mightiest of the Numenoreans. Would Sauron have lost the Ring in the Last Alliance if Elendil, Anarion, Isildur and their knights had not been there?
Possible topic for speculation on an alternate history...
I would snare not even an orc with a falsehood. 
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Cool! I thought that the drowning of Númenor sounded a bit like Atlantis's destruction!  I was right, I was right...
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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I love it, but it takes lots of getting used to. The beginning reads like the Bible. I'm not far along yet, though.
It's amazing how Tolkien created this account. There's so much that went on, and he gives such a detailed description it boggles my mind. Just one man created it all. Incredible.
Run, you pigeons! IT'S ROBERT FROST!!!
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At first, I thought it was harder reading than the Bible, but now it reads as a mythology, which is the way it's supposed to... I think.
Yeah... my history teacher used to go on and on about how amazing it is that Tolkien created a whole library of material! 
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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The duel between Morgoth and Fingolfin. That rocked! Morgoth bringing down his hammer. Fingolfin doging it and whacking Morgoth, not once, not twice, but 7 times, and even as he as was dying sliced off his foot. Thorondor rescuing him, and scratching Morgoth's face in the process. Orcs would make great soccer hooligans.
"Now for wrath, now for ruin, and the red dawn." Theoden, The Two Towers
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That was pretty cool!
Soccer Hooligans?
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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Orcs cheering for their guy. PJ would do a superb job with that.
"Now for wrath, now for ruin, and the red dawn." Theoden, The Two Towers
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Oh... right!
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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CTS-1
(Sat Jun 21 14:51:17)
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How do you tell the difference between a stadium full of Orcs and a stadium full of English soccer hooligans?
I don't have a punchline- I'm just asking.
Look- he's trying to think!
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I do - the Orcs have some co-ordination.
The Audrey Two is not a healthy girl!
Strictly between us, neither is the Audrey One!
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I thought it was a New Zealand-England rugby match.
I don't want to insult either here...! 
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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ReddevilX
(Sat Jun 21 14:51:25)
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| UPDATED Sat Jun 21 14:54:43 |
Just to reply to upper post's. Fëanor is NOT mad! He is the most genius and mightiest of all elves but he creates such a hate to Morgoth that no one hates Morgoth more than Fëanor and he will let nothing stop him from getting his revenge. So Fëanor is not mad/crazy he just has a huge temper and gets VERY pissed of at Morgoth. And Morgoth makes him paranoid and confused by the way.
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The thing about Fëanor that gets me, though, was his pride and selfishness. He refused to share the Silmarils with the Valar so Yavanna could make a sort of copy of the Telperion and Laurelin (did I get those names right?), and then he... well, I won't rant.
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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Well u see that when Fëanor breaks the silmarills so will his heart break and Fëanor dosn't trust the valar because of the lies Melkor(who by the way is the best liar in the world) makes him paranoid and makes Fëanor believe that the valar want to steal. So he really has a serious lack of trust to the valar and dosn't trust them enough to hand over his precious silmarills. Not that it would have mattered if he did say yes, because they were stolen by Melkor anyway.
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Meh... I still think he had problems. Internal problems; his flaws were not caused by Melkor alone. That's my belief, anyway...
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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He had problems that were not caused by Melkor alone, but also by him being the first born elf of the second generation, but losing his mother at birth and his father re-marrying, thats when the problems started to come up.
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CTS-1
(Sat Jun 21 15:02:47)
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| UPDATED Sat Jun 21 15:03:28 |
Not mad.
Full of hubris, self-importance, arrogant, and monomaniacal- yes.
The burning of the Teleri ships is positive proof of his monomania and his callous disregard for the well-being of others, even his allies.
Look- he's trying to think!
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Yes good then we agree CTS. Fëanor was not mad/crazy but he was very unpleasent at times. Also as u said urself, I would rather meet Sauron in battle than Fëanor in a bad mood.
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I really enjoyed the Sil--I also like Unfinished Tales as it ties up or expounds on a few things from the Sil. I do wish I had had a ME encyclopedia with me when I read it, so that I could remember all those darn characters  I missed a few things trying to keep all the people straight.
First thing to do when being stalked by an angry mob with raspberries is to release a tiger
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Tjeck this out! Its better! www.glyphweb.com/arda
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 Thanks--looks very helpful.
First thing to do when being stalked by an angry mob with raspberries is to release a tiger
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I also did not like "The Sil" at first. It took me a long time to read (3 months) I finished it a week ago. I really enjoyed the tale of luthien & Beren, Thingol and Melian, Turin and the third age about Sauron.
One thing that did lead to a bit of research for me was the mention of a Glorfindel who died fighting a balrog, in FOTR (Book) Glorfindel was the Elf who met Aragorn and the hobbits on the way to Rivendell.
A day without Squirrels is a day without sunshine.
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Oh yes, I remember reading your discussion about Glorfindel! 
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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I agree there are some "screwed-up" charactors in TS! Pitiable - Beren? No! Beren was the biggest hero of the lot (barring Aragorn of course!). He promised he would have a Silmaril in his right hand and by golly he did - the fact that the hand was in the stomach of the big bad wolf is by the by!
I didn't like Turin at all. He had no redeeming qualities for me at all. I don't want to get into whether it was his fault, or it was his "doom". I am a believer that you shape your own destiny and had I killed my best friend by accident, I would have returned to Thingol, with the body of [insert name of elf he killed] and explained myself, and thrown myself upon Thingols mercy/justice. Going off and changing your name is just running away, and I don't do that.
I appreciated Tolkiens writing style as soon as I recognised it. It takes a while to see where he is coming from in his sentence construction, but once you get it, it is a work of great literacy. Only Tolkien, writing in this unique style could make a long-winded travelogue (which most of it is) interesting.
In many ways The Silmarillion is like a "grown-up" LOTR. I have only read it once and need to leave a little more time before I read it again, but the once was enough to work out it is a wonderful peice of work.
Glad you like it Eowyn.
http://members.fortunecity.com/tolkienlovers The IMDb Ringnuts website
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Well, Beren was pitiable because he had to brave so many dangers to win Lúthien's hand. It was like Thingol wanted to get him killed. Aragorn didn't go through nearly as many dangers - he never encountered Melkor, or even Sauron - he just won a bigger title. (no offence )
Túrin was just screwed from the day Melkor cursed Húrin's family.
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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You have an interesting "take" on things Eowyn. What is the greater peril? Hand to hand fighting with countless orcs/uruk hai/trolls/ringwraiths or face to face encounters with Melkor, who, by the way, if my memory serves me right "cowered" before Beren?
I don't know if I have my facts right about the encounter between Beren and Melkor, but the premise of my argument still holds water.
Is it braver to face hundreds of foe or one big baddy? Can you separate bravery in such a way?
Aragorn is a hero, and as such he pays reverence to Beren, hopes to be as brave as he was in the face of overwhealming odds. Does Aragorn realise just how brave he is? I doubt it. Rather than pat himself on the back he forces himself on, further and further. Never really knowing wether today will be his last day alive. Ever hoping to succeed. Is this the same bravery as Beren? Who can say?
Bravery is something that other people bestow upon you. It can't be something you see in yourself, not in Beren or Aragorns circumstances.
http://members.fortunecity.com/tolkienlovers The IMDb Ringnuts website
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