Much of this message board is naturally taken up with examining the inter-relationship between the LOTR books and the LOTR films. Facinating though that is (and I'm not seeking to discourage it), it has a tendency to go around in circles. But it raises an interesting question at a meta-level, namely the extent to which one artist (in this case, a film-maker) has the right to interpret the work of another artist (in this case, a novelist).
Many of the criticisms of the films are entirely valid and everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. But a recurrent theme is the extent to which the factual matrix of Tolkien's universe is somehow sacred. This, it seems to me, is often justified on two grounds. First, that any interference with the factual matrix is a departure from the objective "truth" of Middle Earth (insofar as one can have truth about a work of fiction). Secondly, that Tolkien's art was so original that any proper interpretation of it must be deeply loyal to its richness and detail in order to function effectively.
I want to deal with both of these. First, the "truth" of Middle Earth. I have posted elsewhere my view that the method of Tolkien's creative writing makes it peculiarly suited to subjective interpretation by others. In essence, my view is that Tolkien adopted the highly effective conceit that he was re-telling history, such that his mythology was represented as a composite narrative drawn from discrepant source materials. If you are interested:
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0167261/board/thread/505992?d=563524#563524
Put simply, this means that others (like Christopher Tolkein, and PJ himself) are free to adopt (and, indeed, flatter) the conceit by attempting to draw a slightly different narrative from the same fictionalised source materials. That in fact is more loyal to the true conceit of history than slavish adherence to the plot, as most (interesting) historians reject facsimile in favour of interpretation.
Second, the concept of originality in art. As a very amateur musician, I have been fascinated by the extent to which there is little true originality in the composition of melody. That does not detract from the beauty of derivative work - far from it - but we equally have to be honest about the impact of one piece of art upon another. Influential songwriters like Paul McCartney and Brian Wilson acknowledged that they drew much inspiration from classical composers, and the descending bass line in Bach's "Air on a G string" (no Carry On jokes please) appears, if you listen for it, in countless songs. Unlike some who tend toward musical snobbery, I don't object to flattery, only plagiarism. It is well known that "Bitter Sweet Symphony" by The Verve sampled an orchestral version of the Rolling Stones' "The Last Time" but, man, it was a terrific interpretation.
Similarly, PJ and Tolkien. PJ's freedom to interpret Tolkien is all the more obvious if one addresses the question of whether (and to what extent) Tolkien's work was itself derivative. I have read frequently that his writing drew cleverly on a number of mythologies, such as the Welsh Mabinogi, the German Niebelungenlied, and the Finnish Kalevala. If this is true then, employing the arguments many have posted on these boards, Tolkien himself could be criticised as diluting the originality of those previous versions of art.
Does that detract from Tolkien's work? No. So, personally, I would not accuse him of diluting the "originality" of a previous work. It is in the very nature of art that one artist is inspired by and, in turn, flatters, others. I would not go so far as to say that all art is derivative, but those who prefer the LOTR books always have the LOTR books. Those who prefer Bach can always listen to Bach. Those who prefer the Rolling Stones can always listen to the Rolling Stones.
For me, I like them all. But now I also have the films, and I have one (seriously talented) director's visualisation of Middle Earth that feeds my enjoyment of it. The LOTR films do not dilute the books; they are works of art in their own right, and they should be appreciated as such. Within those parameters, I will happily agree or disagree about (for example) the effect of changes to Faramir's character, and do so until I fall asleep at my keyboard because that is an entirely valid (and enjoyable) way to dissect and appreciate art. But, with respect, I cannot agree that PJ has somehow spoiled Tolkien for me/us, because Tolkien's work stands alone from its interpretations and so remains untarnished. The LOTR books are no more spoilt for me than "The Last Time" by the Stones is spoilt because someone else sampled it in a really cool way.
Thanks for listening.
Dumble 
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I'm guessing you either:
a) hate Harry Potter
b) love Harry Potter
or
c) have read "Barry Trotter and the Unauthorized Parody" by mike Gerber.
@~~ Renee (whose old account was erased!) @~~
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dumblebore
(Thu Jan 16 13:40:19)
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 UPDATED Thu Jan 16 13:41:38 |
I've not got around to (c) - have you? I reckon it would be fun.
I do actually quite like Harry Potter.  I think JK Rowling is a good writer. Many of her ideas are highly derivative but, in truth, I see that as a form of flattery to Tolkien and others. She in turn will inspire others. The best thing about her is that her books are aimed at a slightly younger age group and, anecodotally, seem to have had a hugely positive effect on child literacy. The HP films - which I think are OK, say 6/10 - offer a good example of how a film which slavishly adheres to a book can end up with less magic than was in the book. Weird, that.
I'd be interested to see what someone like PJ could do with the His Dark Materials trilogy, which is bursting with potential. The BBC have been doing a Radio 4 adaptation of it (I'm in the UK), and it's a tad anaemic. 
Did anyone in the UK listen to the parody of LOTR that Punt & Dennis did on Radio 4? It was great; it was all about the destruction of the Euro. My favourite was the Public Sector Boromir Requirement.
Dumble
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I'm sorry I don't have time for a longer response right now, but thanks for this post; a cool perspective.
"How do you celebrate your holy week?"
"Wedgies, mostly."
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Great post! I'll respond later when I have time to absorb all of this. Meanwhile, here's a tiny bump back to the top so this doesn't get lost today.
"I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew..."
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sinaes
(Fri Jan 17 01:08:00)
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PJ is free to do whatever he wants.
Long as he states: "based on the works of J.R.R. Tolkien", people are free to see things for themselves.
BTW, there can never be enough Gandalf-type wizards ;)
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sinaes
(Fri Jan 17 05:13:30)
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Thanks for listening
All use bumblebees always listen .. that's why we stay so close to the ground :)
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 the bells the bells! SANCTUARY! The bells are my friends you know...
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ta squirrel
now, time for bed, haven't you got lectures tomorrow?
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What, me?? Got lectures tomorrow?
the bells the bells! SANCTUARY! The bells are my friends you know...
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Sorry, I recalled reading somewhere you were an English lit student.
Actually ... that probably explains why you haven't got any lectures 
Me, harrumph, I have to go to work 
Always enjoy your posts, btw
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 oooooooh you cheeky tart! I do have lectures....I just don't go to them...! Good memory! Haven't actually started back at uni yet, just got exam period, and as a lit student I get away with mostly essays and only one exam which works well for me. Ach, you compliment me, thank you sir! 
Where do you work then?? And do I recall you saying you're from Liverpool?
the bells the bells! SANCTUARY! The bells are my friends you know...
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Ingredients of a dumblebore:
- pick some fresh spectacles and a right-on goatee beard (preferably ripened to total pretentiousness, best with extra chin stroking)
- mix in with a bowl of chaotic parenthood
- take one spoonful of employment law, basted thoroughly in the trade union tradition from Monday to Friday
- add a pinch of frustrated philosopher
- add a dash of amateur historian
- add a twist of musical snobbery
- bake solidly in London for 8 years
- leave to cool in Cardiff for 2 years
Nibble slowly to avoid indigestion.
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the bells the bells! SANCTUARY! The bells are my friends you know...
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If we send our sons & daughters to fight our wars
Is there anything left home worth fighting for?
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And right then I knew, like you know about a good melon.
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Well said Dumbledore!
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I can't believe I missed this post dumblebore, really fasinating perspectives...
great post..
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Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow,
Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow.
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