Caution: Potential Spoilers may lie within. Read on at your own risk!
This is in honor of Vince-Barley, who expressed a desire for more on-topic threads. I promised I'd wrack my brains for one, and this is the best I've yet come up with. Hopefully something better will soon follow. Apologies in advance for the shallow topic.
I've begun questioning literature, asking myself, "Why? What if...? How?" and etc, etc, etc.
It occurred to me that Boromir's yielding to the temptation of the Ring was a marvellous stroke of good luck, and the events that ensued - concerning those of the Fellowship who remained - seemed also to have been pre-ordained, though it may not be blatantly evident. Let me break this down, step by step. Basically I'm going to give you a long summary of the happenings, from Amon Hen to the Entmoot. Along the way, I will present you with a challenge every now and again, which I hope you will answer.
Proceeding...
None of the Company could decide what to do. They were at Amon Hen, and they were unsure of whether they should follow Boromir to Minas Tirith (he'd decided in advance that he would turn in that direction, no matter what) or whether they should remain true to the Quest and continue with Frodo. Even Frodo himself didn't know what he should do.
So, when they beached the boats of Lórien, Frodo asked for an hour's worth of thinking before he determined the route of the Fellowship. This request was granted, and he went off. He wandered aimlessly, wondering what he should do. He would have liked to see the White City, but with every passing hour, the Enemy was gaining on the Fellowship. Yet, he was bound to the Quest - Elrond had said that the Ring was his alone to bear, and that if the Quest failed, he alone would be responsible for its failure.
Then Boromir chanced upon him - or perhaps it was more than chance. He asked Frodo if he might borrow the Ring - just as a trial to see if he could give Gondor an advantage over the Enemy, just for a little while. Frodo refused, and Boromir began to go mad, claiming that the Men of Númenor deserved the Ring more than the Halflings. He sprang at Frodo, but the Hobbit put on the Ring and fled.
Sitting in the seat of the summit of Amon Hen, Frodo decided what course he would take. He would go to Mordor - alone. As Frodo put it in FotR, "this at least is plain: the evil of the Ring is already at work even in the Company,and the Ring must leave them before it does more harm. I will go alone. Some I cannot trust, and those I can trust are too dear to me: poor old Sam, and Merry and Pippin. Strider, too: his heart yearns for Minas Tirith, and he will be needed there, now that Boromir has fallen into evil."
Frodo slipped the Ring back on and made for the shores, for the boats.
Challenge 1 What do you think of Frodo's logic in determining his course? Do you think he should have brought "those [he] can trust"? Was he right in deciding to go alone?
Meanwhile, the rest of the Fellowship pondered which way Frodo would choose. The members of the Fellowship decided, in general, that they would rather go to Minas Tirith with Boromir but were unwilling to leave Frodo. Aragorn said that "if he goes east, then all need not go with him; nor do Ithink that all should. That venture is desperate: as much as for eight as for three or two, or one aloe. If you would let me choose, then I should appoint three companions: Sam, who could not bear it otherwise; Gimli; and myself."
The three Hobbits then protested when Sam noticed Boromir's absence. The Fellowship then realized that it had been more than an hour, and Frodo ought to have returned by now. Then Boromir reappeared, and said that he "found him some way up the hill, and I spoke to him. I urged him to come to Minas Tirith and not go to the east. I grew angry and he left me. He vanished. [...] I could not find him again. I thought he would return to you."
Within moments, the Fellowship had disseminated. Merry and Pippin ran off in search of their friend and Legolas and Gimli formed a hunting pair, leaving Aragorn and Boromir behind. Aragorn told Boromir to watch after "those two young hobbits" while he searched for Frodo with Sam.
Sam could not keep up with Aragorn as they ran up the hill. Suddenly Sam realized that "Boromir isn't lying, that's not his way; but he hasn't told us everything. Something scared Mr. Frodo badly. He screwed himself up to the point, sudden. He made up his mind at last - to go. Where to? Off East. Not without Sam? Yes, without even his Sam. [... Frodo] can't fly across rivers, and he can't jump waterfalls. He's got no gear. So he's got to get back to the boats. Back to the boats!" With that, Sam left Aragorn and made for the boats. There he caught up with Frodo but nearly drowned. Frodo saved him, and could not convince Sam to go with the others on a safer journey. So they returned to shore to get Sam's gear, and together they went towards Mordor.
TTT begins. Aragorn delays at the summit of Amon Hen when he hears the horn of Gondor. He rushes towards the sound but is too late - Boromir lies dying under a tree. He lives just long enough to tell Aragorn that he had tried to take the Ring from Frodo and that the Orcs took the Halflings. Legolas and Gimli then arrive; the three of them give Boromir a hasty but fitting funeral. Then they determine that the Orcs were in Saruman's service, and that Frodo and Sam went to Mordor together. Aragorn decides that he "will follow the Orcs. I would have guided Frodo to Mordor and gone with him to the end; but if I seek him now in the wilderness, I must abandon the captives to torment and death. My heart speaks clearly at last: the fate of the Bearer is in my hands no longer. The Company has played its part. Yet we that remain cannot forsake our companions while we have strength left. Come! We will leave now."
Challenge 2 What do you think of Aragorn's logic in deciding his route? Why do you think he chose to attempt to rescue Merry and Pippin - (no offense) perhaps the two least important members of the Fellowship (as of now) - instead of following Frodo, in whose hands lie the fate of Middle-earth? Do you think he made the right decision (without considering the consequences)?
On the first day of the hunt, the Three Hunters encountered five dead Orcs; Aragorn concluded that the enemy had brought the enemy with him. Then he found an Elven brooch from Lórien and decided that Pippin had dropped it there for any search-and-rescue parties to find, since small Hobbit prints (or, small for a Hobbit, that is) were found near it. That evening, they came "at last to a hard choice." They had to decide whether they should "rest by night" or "go on while [their] will and strength hold."
Gimli argued that "even Orcs must pause on the march," that "if [they] walk by night, [they] cannot follow their trail," and that "only by day can [they] see if any tracks lead away. If a prisoner should escape, or if one should be carried off [... they] might pass the signs and never know it."
Aragorn and Legolas argued that "unless [their] enemies rest also, they will leave [them] far behind, if [they] stay to sleep," that "Orcs [seldom] journey in the open under the sun [and] certainly they will not rest by night," that "the trail is straight, and turns neither right nor left," that "the whole company is now bound for Isengard [and] their present course bears me out," and that "the Orcs will be on their guard since [Pippin's running off-track to drop the brooch and leave his prints], and the prisoners even wearier [and] there will be no escape again."
But though he argued against it, Aragorn decided that they would take a few hours' worth of sleep, since "the peril of missing the trail or signs of other coming and going seems to [him] the greater."
And so they slept, though restlessly.
Challenge 3 What do you think of Aragorn's logic in deciding whether they should sleep or not? Who do you think had the stronger argument: Gimli or Aragorn and Legolas?
In the morning, they journeyed on. And on and on and on. Nothing special happened until they met the Rohirrim. Here they struck a truce. Éomer lent them horses, and the Three Hunters would later meet them again to do battle side-by-side.
Challenge 4 This first encounter between the Rohirrim and the Three Hunters was full of tension and edginess. Accusations fly back and forth between the two groups, presumptions are made, and insulting words are exchanged. What if this exchange had turned out differently? What would happen as a result?
Let's leave the Three Hunters now and go to Merry and Pippin. They have, with much fortune, escaped from the Uruks and have traipsed into Fangorn Forest. There they meet Treebeard - one of the oldest creatures on Middle-earth and the Entish tree-herd. They tell him their tale (though they leave out all the parts concerning the Ring), and he tells them about Saruman, Entwives, and the mischief happening on the southern borders of Fangorn.
Arguably, Treebeard would not have been roused had he not met Merry and Pippin, and Entmoot would not have happened. He expresses his frustration with the trouble brewing in southern Fangorn and with his idleness that has covered him for so long.
Challenge 5 Do you think that Treebeard would have been roused if Merry and Pippin had not been there? Suppose he was not roused. What consequence(s) would this have on the history of Middle-earth? (think where the rousing leads the Ents, and what they do)
The Ultimate Challenge
What if Boromir didn't assail Frodo and scare the Halfling into running off to Mordor without announcing it to the others?
- Which course do you would the Fellowship have taken? Explain.
- What would the long-term consequences be? (would Sauron have gained any advantage over the Free Folk, or vice-versa?)
What if Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli hadn't decided to pursue the Orcs and instead followed Frodo?
- What would have happened to Merry and Pippin? Would Saruman have gained any information? What would he do with such information?
- Would anyone have eventually met the Rohirrim? What would consequently happen because they did not strike a truce with Éomer (would Théoden have been "cured"? what about Helm's Deep?)?
- How would Frodo and Sam's journey have changed when the Three Hunters caught up with them? (what with Gollum, the encounter with Faramir, Shelob's lair, etc)
What if Merry and Pippin hadn't met Treebeard?
- Would Treebeard have continued his idleness?
- If he would still have been roused, would he have gotten as much support from his fellow Ents? Explain.
- If Isengard were not destroyed, what would happen as a result? Would Saruman continue to wield power? How would this affect the history of Middle-earth?
The Road Goes Ever On
I realize I'm throwing a lot at you... you don't have to cover everything! I just took Vince's post seriously, and hope you consider this a worthy on-topic thread.
Have fun!
 You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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More popcorn, anyone? 
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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Don't leave me to eat all this popcorn by myself... I'll get fat!
Hey, you guys wanted an on-topic thread, I gave you an on-topic thread... (whiney voice) please answer...
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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Excellent topic! The best I've seen in a while. Here goes:
Challenge 1 What do you think of Frodo's logic in determining his course? Do you think he should have brought "those [he] can trust"? Was he right in deciding to go alone?
I think he did the right thing. I think anyone else would have probably snapped and killed him, except maybe Aragorn, who was needed elsewhere as we see later.
Challenge 2 What do you think of Aragorn's logic in deciding his route? Why do you think he chose to attempt to rescue Merry and Pippin - (no offense) perhaps the two least important members of the Fellowship (as of now) - instead of following Frodo, in whose hands lie the fate of Middle-earth? Do you think he made the right decision (without considering the consequences)?
I'm pretty sure that Aragorn knew that following Frodo would be too dangerous to risk for both of them. I think he decides to go after Merry and Pippin, then, because he has to leave Frodo alone now. And he can't bear the idea of cute little hobbits being tortured by Orcs. I'm pretty sure he made the right choice, under the circumstances.
Challenge 3 What do you think of Aragorn's logic in deciding whether they should sleep or not? Who do you think had the stronger argument: Gimli or Aragorn and Legolas?
Gotta go with Aragorn on this. It's bad to miss tracks and such- but you don't want the orcs to get too far ahead, or Merry and Pippin are dead. I think his idea was exactly right.
Challenge 4 This first encounter between the Rohirrim and the Three Hunters was full of tension and edginess. Accusations fly back and forth between the two groups, presumptions are made, and insulting words are exchanged. What if this exchange had turned out differently? What would happen as a result?
I think if it turned out differently, some folks would have died. This would have been bad, especially since they needed to be fighting bad guys, not each other.
Challenge 5 Do you think that Treebeard would have been roused if Merry and Pippin had not been there? Suppose he was not roused. What consequence(s) would this have on the history of Middle-earth? (think where the rousing leads the Ents, and what they do)
No, I really don't think he would have been roused. And if he wasn't, then Saruman probably wouldn't have been beaten. This would be. . . very bad for the good guys.
The Ultimate Challenge
What if Boromir didn't assail Frodo and scare the Halfling into running off to Mordor without announcing it to the others?
- Which course do you would the Fellowship have taken? Explain.
Probably, they'd have continued towards Mordor.
- What would the long-term consequences be? (would Sauron have gained any advantage over the Free Folk, or vice-versa?)
I think they'd eventually all fight over the Ring. . . Die. . . Orcs get the Ring. . . Sauron takes over. Badbadbadbadbadbadbadbadbad!
What if Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli hadn't decided to pursue the Orcs and instead followed Frodo?
Not good, I think. There could be battles, and death.
- What would have happened to Merry and Pippin? Would Saruman have gained any information? What would he do with such information?
I don't think Saruman would ever get anything out of Merry and Pippin, but if by chance he did get what they knew, I doubt there's anything they knew that could really help him.
- Would anyone have eventually met the Rohirrim? What would consequently happen because they did not strike a truce with Éomer (would Théoden have been "cured"? what about Helm's Deep?)?
I'm sure Helm's Deep would have been destroyed, and everyone killed. Bad.
- How would Frodo and Sam's journey have changed when the Three Hunters caught up with them? (what with Gollum, the encounter with Faramir, Shelob's lair, etc)
Not really sure about this one.
What if Merry and Pippin hadn't met Treebeard?
- Would Treebeard have continued his idleness?
I think that he would.
- If he would still have been roused, would he have gotten as much support from his fellow Ents? Explain.
No, since he didn't know as much as P & M did about the evil Saruman's foul plot.
- If Isengard were not destroyed, what would happen as a result? Would Saruman continue to wield power? How would this affect the history of Middle-earth?
I think that he would have continued to have power. Would this, in the end, have changed the history of M.E.? I don't really think so. . . with his forces defeated at Helm's Deep, I feel he was left fairly harmless anyway. Though he might have cooked something else up.
Once again, excellent topic!
"It can only be attributable to human error."
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Good post ah kid! One that actually requires some thought, now there's a novelty! Not sure my hang-over mind has the where-with-all to cope with it; we shall see!
"Challenge 1 What do you think of Frodo's logic in determining his course? Do you think he should have brought "those [he] can trust"? Was he right in deciding to go alone?"
My answer:
Frodo did what he thought he honestly had to at the time. He had been scared enough to lose faith in his Fellowship (at least some of the members) and correctly realised that the time was right - now or never, so to speak. I believe Frodo made the right choice, though how much of it was academic on his part in making the decision and how much was by fluke is harder to tell.
"Challenge 2 What do you think of Aragorn's logic in deciding his route? Why do you think he chose to attempt to rescue Merry and Pippin - (no offense) perhaps the two least important members of the Fellowship (as of now) - instead of following Frodo, in whose hands lie the fate of Middle-earth? Do you think he made the right decision (without considering the consequences)?"
My answer: To be honest (tbh), I think part of his decision stemmed from the fact that possibly helping Merry and Pippin was slightly more 'do-able' than aiding Frodo and Sam. I mean, he guessed that he'd stand more success in helping one pair of hobbits than the other. I firmly believe this, though I'm not saying this was the only thing that swayed his mind; I believe in actual fact that is was merely a part. The other parts Vince seems to have covered pretty well. I will add that I also believe that Aragorn felt he had something to make up to or for Boromir, that he owed his something, Boromir having given his life and all. I thin Boromir's death shocked Aragorn (in a sense) into realising his nobility more fully. As in, it made him more decisive in taking back what is his. Also, Aragorn was immediately aware of the pressing danger Rohan, a one-time faithful neighbour - faced. He felt bound to help?? In a sense, I think Aragorn saw more potential for his use and skill to the West than to the East when they headed into Rohan at the expense of making for the Shadow Mountains et al. What could he have rally done in Mordor? His goals were more ahcieveable elsewhere.
"Challenge 3 What do you think of Aragorn's logic in deciding whether they should sleep or not? Who do you think had the stronger argument: Gimli or Aragorn and Legolas?"
My answer: I am with Legolas on this. His forward thinking (one sign was dropped, now orcs on double guard to prevent another etc..) I believe time was the more pressing factor. I would have advised against sleeping. You have to take chances, which may include missing stuff in the dark, but if you're chasing someone, you have to out-run them to catch up with them. That is the only way you can possibly catch up. And that means running when they run, and running when they don't. It also means running quicker than them, too. Of course, as it happens, it would have not mattered, but they weren't to know that.
"Challenge 4 This first encounter between the Rohirrim and the Three Hunters was full of tension and edginess. Accusations fly back and forth between the two groups, presumptions are made, and insulting words are exchanged. What if this exchange had turned out differently? What would happen as a result?"
My answer: The effects of an alternative result could have been potentially to say the least, disasterous. But the true leadership skills of Aragorn over men and mankind prevailed. At times of war, the oppressed need all the allies they can find. At this point, both sides here needed assistance. They helped each other, which was logical, practical...and plain, nice :) I believe our 3 heroes would have died at teh hands of Emoer's men; not before slaughtering many, admittedly, but they could not have overpowered them all. So it's a good job Aragorn's innate nobility surfaced when it did.
"Challenge 5 Do you think that Treebeard would have been roused if Merry and Pippin had not been there? Suppose he was not roused. What consequence(s) would this have on the history of Middle-earth? (think where the rousing leads the Ents, and what they do)"
My answer: No, I believe the war would have occured without Ent-participation were it not for our 2 hobbits. And while they (Ents) helped enourmously, I believe Rohan would have still prevailed. Their victory at Helm's Deep was in no way down to the Ents. All the Ents did was stop any other army from being made. but that would have taken time to do, and Rohan would have still had the chance to do that themselves. In a nut shell then, the Ents' input was welcomed and helpful, but not essential.
"What if Boromir didn't assail Frodo and scare the Halfling into running off to Mordor without announcing it to the others?
- Which course do you would the Fellowship have taken? Explain.
My answer: They would have gone into Mordor, save Boromir. Reason? That was always the plan, ultimately.
- What would the long-term consequences be? (would Sauron have gained any advantage over the Free Folk, or vice-versa?)
My answer: I think Rohan would have lost, to the hand of Isengard, and thus Gondor would have been lost and far more quickly. So, though Sauron initially would perhaps not have gained anything personally, I believe in the long run he would have stood a better chance at victory.
What if Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli hadn't decided to pursue the Orcs and instead followed Frodo?
- What would have happened to Merry and Pippin? Would Saruman have gained any information? What would he do with such information?
My answer: Merry and Pippin would have still found the Ents...Aragorn Legolas and Gimli played no part in that happening. And I'm with Vince again - I don't think either of the 2 hobbits could have told Saruman much to help him (even if they wanted to). But they might not have been caught anyway still??
- Would anyone have eventually met the Rohirrim? What would consequently happen because they did not strike a truce with Éomer (would Théoden have been "cured"? what about Helm's Deep?)?
My answer: Big trouble. Gandalf waking up the King to the situation was the vital first step in a string of them. Perhaps Gandalf would have found a way to do this and then enlist Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli anyway?? I'm sure he would have!!!!! If not though, Helm's Deep would have fallen without aid, for sure. It would have been a horrible mess tbh.
- How would Frodo and Sam's journey have changed when the Three Hunters caught up with them? (what with Gollum, the encounter with Faramir, Shelob's lair, etc)
My answer: I think Shelob may have been overcome in this case, but perhaps not without fatalities?? Would Gollum have led them there with the presence of the other 3 Fellowhip? Would they have even teamed up with him in fact?? Too difficult to speculate, this is.
What if Merry and Pippin hadn't met Treebeard?
My answer: They always were going to though. Was never in doubt? But if they hadn't, I think they would have died at the hands of Saruman.
- Would Treebeard have continued his idleness?
My answer: Most probably. But don't give Merry and Pippin all the credit - didn't Gandalf have words with Treebeard himself?
- If he would still have been roused, would he have gotten as much support from his fellow Ents? Explain.
My answer: Depends here: book and film very wildly. Book: yes, film: perhaps not. The book had the Ents always aware of their role, their part. The film required them to be pushed into it a bit more. It all depends (movie-wise) on any 1 Ent seeing the felled trees.
- If Isengard were not destroyed, what would happen as a result? Would Saruman continue to wield power? How would this affect the history of Middle-earth?
My answer: I agree with Vince. Isengard was heading for a fall by putting out so much of its strength in one go and then losing it all. It was left open and vulnerbale to attack and defeat. Were it not so, it oculd have been dangerous to the end, though when a Saruman looked to a victorious Sauron for pay, I think he would have been outraged (but powerless to alter anything) at what he got.
There you go. They're my answers, all my own thoughts. Neither right nor wrong, but just what I believe may have been had circumastances not been as they were. Nice post though, I look forward to reading others' views!!
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- Would Treebeard have continued his idleness?
My answer: Most probably. But don't give Merry and Pippin all the credit - didn't Gandalf have words with Treebeard himself?
Gandalf spoke with Treebeard after the Ents destroyed Isengard. Beforehand, the two geezers hadn't spoken in a very long time. And keep in mind that Treebeard was aware of trouble brewing in southern Fangorn, but had no idea of the extent of the destruction until Merry and Pippin updated him with all they knew from Sam's report of the Council of Elrond.
Thanks, Vince and Corsten, for your very thorough replies!
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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No, I'm pretty sure Gandalf spoke earlier than that!?!?! Didn't he!?!?!?!
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He didn't, I swear! Treebeard mentioned to Merry and Pippin that he'd seen an old man walking around, and that they made eye contact, but went their own ways without a word being spoken. You must be thinking of that.
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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Great post Eowyn!
Answering it is going to take up my entire Sunday afternoon!
Here goes.....
Challenge 1 What do you think of Frodo's logic in determining his course? Do you think he should have brought "those [he] can trust"? Was he right in deciding to go alone?
Yes, I think Frodo made the right decision. The ring was obviously beginning to affect the fellowship; Boromir would have been only the start of it, the others would have been tempted sooner or later.
Challenge 2 What do you think of Aragorn's logic in deciding his route?
Wise decision. He recognised that Frodo was beyond his help, and that after chasing Merry and Pippin, however that may turn out, he could proceed to Gondor where he was needed (especially after the death of Boromir). Also, Boromir had confided in Aragorn that he had tried to take the ring. Aragorn would recognise that the ring was starting to influence the fellowship.
Challenge 3 What do you think of Aragorn's logic in deciding whether they should sleep or not? Who do you think had the stronger argument: Gimli or Aragorn and Legolas?
Difficult one!
As it turned out, he made the right decision; but in the same position I'm not sure what I would have done!
Challenge 4 This first encounter between the Rohirrim and the Three Hunters was full of tension and edginess. Accusations fly back and forth between the two groups, presumptions are made, and insulting words are exchanged. What if this exchange had turned out differently? What would happen as a result?
I think the three companions would have been killed - they were vastly outnumbered by the riders.
Challenge 5 Do you think that Treebeard would have been roused if Merry and Pippin had not been there? Suppose he was not roused. What consequence(s) would this have on the history of Middle-earth? (think where the rousing leads the Ents, and what they do)
Treebeard already had an idea of what was going on (this is more obvious in the book than the movie). In the book, the hobbits are not the catalyst for Treebeard's actions; he has already decided to deal with Saruman, and just takes the hobbits along with him. So, I think things would have panned out pretty much the same for Isengard.
What if Boromir didn't assail Frodo and scare the Halfling into running off to Mordor without announcing it to the others?
Frodo had already decided to go to Mordor; he was just worried about how the others would take it. So, Frodo goes to Mordor... now it's a question of who decides to go with him! They would still be attacked by the Uruks - if Merry and Pippin had not run off to look for Frodo, would they have been captured? This is getting too complicated for me! I'm chickening out on this one.
I'll have to think about the rest of your challenges a while longer and come back. See you later!
I don't care too much for money, money can't buy me love
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Well, I'm back.
I've had a think (and a couple of glasses of wine), so here goes...
What if Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli hadn't decided to pursue the Orcs and instead followed Frodo?
Merry and Pippin first: Even without Aragorn and co following them, the Rohirrim would presumably have still killed the orcs, and the hobbits would therefore still have met up with Treebeard. But if the orcs had somehow missed the Rohirrim - then I think that Saruman would have been so angry at their being the "wrong" hobbits (ie they don't carry the ring) they would have been killed on the spot. Which in turn means bad news for Faramir, Eowyn.....doesn't bear thinking about!
I think Gandalf would still have gone to Edoras. This seems to be his intention before encountering the three companions in Fangorn. So perhaps Theoden would still have been "cured". But he may then have gone off in search of either Aragorn or Frodo, leaving Theoden's men to fight at Helm's Deep without aid.
As for Frodo and Sam... Frodo seemed so intent on his purpose to go to Mordor alone, I'm sure he could have convinced Aragorn to allow him and Sam to continue without them. Aragorn could then have met Faramir, and journeyed to Gondor with him. It misses out the paths of the Dead though, which is an important factor. And I think Gollum may have been too frightened to approach Frodo if the others were with him. Would Frodo and Sam have attempted to enter the Black Gate?
What if Merry and Pippin hadn't met Treebeard?
I've just re-read this part of the book. Treebeard is certainly worried about what Saruman is doing, but the news from the hobbits stirs him into action. So the ents may have stormed Isengard without the hobbits' intervention, but it might have happened much later in the story - allowing Saruman to win the battle at Helm's Deep (which in the book would not have been possible without either Gandalf or the Huorns) and re-group his armies to assault Gondor.
So....
We have Frodo entering Mordor at the Black Gate, under the watchful eyes of thousands of orcs, trolls and easterlings.
We have Aragorn already at Gondor.
We have Gondor attacked not only from Mordor, but from Isengard.
No Merry to save Eowyn, no Pippin to save Faramir.
... I think Sauron would win this one!
It makes you think - what a beautifully constructed plot exists there in the book. Change any one point just slightly, and the consequences can be far-reaching for the whole story.
Thank you Eowyn, I've enjoyed this immensely!
I don't care too much for money, money can't buy me love
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Great post Eowyn! I'm going to throw out a few thoughts in response to the challenges.
Challenge 1 What do you think of Frodo's logic in determining his course? Do you think he should have brought "those [he] can trust"? Was he right in deciding to go alone?
I'm of two minds about this one. On the one hand, you can say that it was a good call because Frodo has just seen what the Ring has done to Boromir, and how it twisted his heart. So, both speaking logically, he wants to take the Ring away from the company before something like this, or worse, can happen again. There's also sentiment backing it up, since because the forces of evil are hunting for the Ring and it is attracting them to the party, so Frodo sees this as taking them out of danger, which is a point.
On the flip side, going off alone, especially into the difficult terrain that he is going to travel into, is a foolhardy decision at best. And secondly, the idea of taking the danger away from the rest of the company is a flawed one, at best. Even in the best of times, we cannot keep danger away from those care about, and those were hardly the best of times. Everyone in the Company was there because they had a way to contribute to Frodo's success, or could not bear to be parted from him. In the case of most of them, they would have been going into danger anyway, whether battling alongside other of their peoples, or against Sauron some other way. It is not as if they would be sitting home by the fire if it were not for Frodo, so he takes too much responsibility/blame upon himself for their circumstances. It would have been better to have their help in a tight spot, logically speaking.
What do you think of Aragorn's logic in deciding his route? Why do you think he chose to attempt to rescue Merry and Pippin - (no offense) perhaps the two least important members of the Fellowship (as of now) - instead of following Frodo, in whose hands lie the fate of Middle-earth? Do you think he made the right decision (without considering the consequences)?
Aragorn, I think, chose the best he could in a tight spot with no time to really think things out. The company would most likely have broken at the Falls anyway and gone separate ways, with a smaller band accompanying Frodo, and the rest either going to Minas Tirith with Boromir or to wherever else. Since he knows that Frodo at least has Sam with him and their gear, he knows Frodo has a chance, really the same chance they started out with, which was to go unnoticed. (And that chance is a lot more than he can foresee Merry and Pippin having). And all the confusion of events that take place at Amon Hen will certainly be good cover for awhile. Logically, perhaps, he should have gone after Frodo and helped however he could, but he too has just seen what happened to Boromir because of it, so that reluctance may be playing on his mind as well.
He knows that Merry and Pippin will surely die if he abandons them, and under torture might give up something that their enemies could make use of. So he chooses with his heart, and really I think all he could do at that point was hope for the best either way.
What do you think of Aragorn's logic in deciding whether they should sleep or not? Who do you think had the stronger argument: Gimli or Aragorn and Legolas?
Well, Aragorn and Legolas turned out to be right in the long run, but Gimli had a good point, they couldn't run after the Orcs all ay and night, they have to rest sometime. And if the Orcs had changed their path, it would have been just as much of a delay. And, a bit of an overlooked point is that the Hunters don't just have to catch up to the orcs, but once they do, they either have to find a way to get the hobbits out or to somehow fight their way to their friends, which is not something they can do if they're completely exhausted or injured, as they might well be from all that running.
Do you think that Treebeard would have been roused if Merry and Pippin had not been there? Suppose he was not roused. What consequence(s) would this have on the history of Middle-earth? (think where the rousing leads the Ents, and what they do)
I think that the Ents would have eventually been roused, but probably not until it was too late. Treebeard himself was pretty much roused before the hobbits came to the wood, and when they did it certainly didn't take him long, (despite
his talk of not being hasty), to make up his mind and call the Entmoot where, I feel, he had a large part in convincing the other Ents to go to war.
Well now, if Merry and Pippin hadn't been there, Treebeard himself would probably have made up his mind to try something, even if only a more vigorous defense of the forest. But I don't think he would have done it with the passion that he did, and I doubt he would have been able to convince many of the other Ents to join him.
About the Ultimate challenge, some of the questions there I've answered in passing already, but I may come back another time and do a more in-depth analysis of them when I have more time. Again, great post!
"His madness keeps him sane, doesn't it?"
"Do you think he is the only one?"
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Okay - it's official - I'm rereading the books starting tonight!
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lol, how many times have you read them? They really do get better every time you read them, I've noticed, especially after discovering these boards. I find more and more subtleties, themes, connotations, and references to literature/history in LotR every single time I reread the series.
btw, if you were going to ask how many times I've read the series... umm... heh heh... I'm reading 'em for the twelfth time, since late Dec. 2001
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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Well - you've got me there - I've only read them once after I saw Two Towers for the first time and couldn't stand not knowing what was going to happen. My husband, who had read them, was being very cryptic in his answers to my questions, so I had to read them. Now I need to read them again cuz I know I missed stuff the first time through!
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This message has been deleted by the poster
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 by -
sinaes
(Sat May 10 10:02:18)
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Challenge 1 What do you think of Frodo's logic in determining his course? Do you think he should have brought "those [he] can trust"? Was he right in deciding to go alone?
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Here we realize the insidiousness of the ring. Not only are the bad guys looking for it, but as Gandalf said, "the ring wants to be found." Frodo realized this when Boromir tried to take it from him. In the film this is made quite clear, when he also presents the ring to Aragorn and asks him if he can protect him (Frodo) from himself. Frodo knew that the whole fellowship would never make it, it had to be him alone (the one who resisted the ring the most) to go into the heart of the enemy.
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Challenge 2 What do you think of Aragorn's logic in deciding his route? Why do you think he chose to attempt to rescue Merry and Pippin - (no offense) perhaps the two least important members of the Fellowship (as of now) - instead of following Frodo, in whose hands lie the fate of Middle-earth? Do you think he made the right decision (without considering the consequences)?
Aragorn had to rescue Merry and Pip, they were his companions. As to not following Frodo, Aragorn probably realized the wisdom of Frodo's decision (which again is made clear in the film).
I will continue with the rest at a later date ;)
I'm like a good haines t-shirt: tagless 
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Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow,
Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow.
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A friendly bump from Sponsor #11593: Lady Éowyn
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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A friendly bump from Sponsor #11593: Lady Éowyn
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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UPDATED Sun Mar 30 13:11:06
