I would like your take on this.
I'm quite illiterate.But I read alot.
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His objective was to create a mithology for England.
Fernie
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That's exactly what I was thinking ferns.I wanted to see if anyone else would say it.
There's plenty more I'm sure.But the whole mythology thing is probably the biggest reason.
I'm quite illiterate.But I read alot.
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And because of that, maybe some of his characters don't have much depth, but his "world" most certainly does
That's what I feel so appealing...
Fernie
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Why that's one of the best ways I've ever heard it put ferns!Bravo
I'm quite illiterate.But I read alot.
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CTS-1
(Wed Jul 2 19:09:25)
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Details, details, details....
Look- he's trying to think!
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hmm?
I'm quite illiterate.But I read alot.
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Would you like to further explain your thoughts,or just leave it at that? 
I'm quite illiterate.But I read alot.
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It's not "Oz"-zy, like Narnia. It's more realistic and has more depth and inner issues.
 You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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The breadth, depth, and detail of his worldbuilding.
Other people may bring up his themes, the complexity of the story, the depth of some of the characters, etc., but many other fantasies have worked on the same literary level.
Definitely his worldbuilding. Nothing else in the genre has come close to matching it, unless you count the various worlds created for roleplaying games, but only in the sense of the amount of source material, not artistic accomplishment.
The road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
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I agree with you there Fleabite. Everything Tolkien created had an original name that came out of one of his created languages. No gobbledegook just thrown on the page for the sake of naming.
He also devoted his entire adult life to it, which I'm sure hasn't been matched much.
Run, you pigeons! IT'S ROBERT FROST!!!
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I agree with you guys
I can't get over the 'Trollocs' in Jordan's Wheel Of Time..
All of Tolkien's names are original,which makes the story more real.
I'm quite illiterate.But I read alot.
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I mostly am impressed by all the detail and depth to his world.
I'm a study of a man in chaos in search of frenzy.
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IMHO, it was the feeling that what i was reading did happen sometime in the past, That the characters existed. And it had so much detail that it seemed like Tolkien himself witnessed it all. That and the fact that i always wished to have a friend like Sam!!
Smile... tomorrow will be worse
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reading your response Chuly,reminded me of something I have just read about Tolkien.Whenever he thought up a new character,he thought of the name first,and when people would ask him about it,he'd say,"Guess I'd better go find out more about him then",like it was already there,and he just had to look for it.
I'm quite illiterate.But I read alot.
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Roy72
(Sun Jul 6 23:48:59)
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(SPOILERS AHEAD)
Something not mentioned yet is the interconnectivity of the subplots and how everything in the story comes together so wonderfully. This is what has made PJs job attempting to condense the story into one ten hour movie-going experience so hard.
Examples:- A seemingly pointless (to the main plot) encounter with the barrow wight, comes to fruition six hundred pages later when Merry wounds the Witch King with the numenorean sword taken from the barrow. This sword had been forged well over a thousand years previously to battle Angmar and the Witch King.
PJs version:- "These are for you".
Shelob wounded by the light of the two trees. This light was captured in the silmarils by Feanor, then stolen, then recovered by Beren and Luthien, taken to Valinor by Earendil. The light then was captured by Galadriel in her fountain and given to Frodo. It is so damaging to Shelob as the light was uncorrupted and hallowed by the Valar. Here you have to have read maybe 1500 pages of Tolkien's histories to see the whole picture.
The re-forging of Narsil. Say no more.
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I hear what you're saying, but interconnectivity of subplots is hardly unique to the fantasy genre.
Even the Harry Potter novels are constantly taking seemingly disparate plots and tying them into cohesive wholes, and George R.R. Martin's epic A Song of Ice and Fire is maintaining a dozen simultaneous plots and subplots, all of which are interconnected. Those are only two examples.
The road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
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I'm with flea on this one. Have you read books like Les Miserables or War and Peace? They have absolutely no fantasy element in them, yet they contain interweaving subplots.
No offense, but a conicidence that Tom Bombadil gave "special swords" that are the only ones on Middle Earth to wound a Nazgul, is stupid. It's like reading about the author trying to crawl his way out of a plot hole he or she might have accidenty fallen into. Tolkien knew better than that, so he had Eowyn deal the fatal blow, so a mortal blade could indeed kill a Nazgul.
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Shakra
(Sun Jul 6 23:54:50)
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His world is so detailed that it brings the story to life...as though he was merely recording what really happened. Obviously, people have believed that these stories were to be placed within a specific time period of Earth, as we have seen discussions re: the use of gunpowder and whether it fit into the story.
Homer: God bless those pagans.
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Lord_Natrone
(Mon Jul 7 01:08:21)
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 UPDATED Mon Jul 7 09:23:13 |
A lot of great responses and I especially enjoyed Roy's. To put it yet another way, what author would spend 30 years constructing a world along with 10,000+ years of history and languages in order to supply the story? When writing fantasy (as opposed to other types of fiction) the author can do nearly anything he writes so far as the rules of that universe and the history of the world are concerned. And while the author can write about the Kingdom of Kel'thar that stood for a thousand years, and try to put things in that make the world seem old and real, it is just on the spot adding of things where needed.
In addition to the detail and the construction of a world, the thing that 'sells' it, makes someone think that this actually could have happened, is that Tolkien approached it as a historian and not as an author. The Red Book of Westmarche and There and Back Again were books that he found and translated, and where he 'learned' of Middle-earth. Along these lines he also used a device with the narrator in which he refers to things as either 1) the reader is already familiar with such things and/or 2) there is a lot more to be said, but won't be told here.
Tom Shippey, in Tolkien: Author of the Century gives examples of this from The Hobbit:
"Gandalf! If you had heard only a quarter of what I have about him, you would be prepared for any sort of a remarkable tale."
"One of the Took ancestors must have taken a fairy wife. That was, of course, absurd."
"For trolls, as you probably know, must be underground before dawn, or they go back to the stuff of the mountains they are made of."
I'm sorry to say it is late, or else I would look for some examples of my own from LOTR, but I think this conveys the idea rather nicely and may give you something to think about next time you're reading LOTR or Hobbit.
I would snare not even an orc with a falsehood. 
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BB-15
(Mon Jul 7 02:01:41)
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Hi Lord_Natrone;
"what author would spend 30 years constructing a world along with 10,000+ years of history and languages in order to supply the story?"
Absolutely right. But I would add another difference with the few fantasy novels I have read and popular fiction in general.
The pop fiction chapters are often mini mysteries, there is a cliff hanger at the end of the chapter to encourage you to read the next page. I see little of that in Tolkien. His story will often meander. Of course on occasion Tolkien can create a page turner ending to a chapter, (The Bridge of Khazad-Dum is a good example) but the overall purpose of the writing is not to create constant suspense but to immerse the reader in this detailed world.
Pop fiction writers like many pop films usually put a host of modern charcters in ancient settings. So with respect to Mists of Avalon; am I reading about Morgaine and King Arthur or is this just an episode of Sex in the City set in the time of King Arthur? Now Tolkien does drop modern characters in his stories, Bilbo is a good example. But on the whole the folks in his stories have more in common with Beowulf and Icelandic sagas. It feels like a world of a different time.
Have a good one, BB ;-)
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In short: it's BETTER. Tolkien's world is more intricate, more layered, and ultimately more interesting than anything his followers have created. Their works lack a spirit, a deeper motivation. They seem lacklustre in comparison, derivative, dull. I can't bear to read them.
Begone foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion!
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Tolkien's world is more intricate, more layered, and ultimately more interesting than anything his followers have created.
I would tend to accept this as true, Wajz. In fact, I agree that this is exactly what sets Tolkien apart from other fantasy writers. After all, I did say so in my own post on the subject.
I guess that's why I tend to gravitate towards those fantasy writers who focus on more than just their fantasy worlds. After all, whose fantasy world can ever fully measure up to Middle-earth?
My favorite fantasy writers are those who have, at least in part, gone in the opossite direction of Tolkien. Rather than building intricate histories, cultures, languages, etc., they build complex, engaging, unique characters.
There's more than one way to write a worthwhile piece of fantasy, just as there's more than one way to write a worthwhile piece of fiction of any kind.
If you're talking about writers like David Eddings, Raymond Feist, Terry Goodkind, Terry Brooks, then I agree with you completely.
But if you're lumping in writers like Stephen R. Donaldson, George R.R. Martin, Glen Cook, or even Tad Williams, then I can't agree at all.
The road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
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His vision, and above all, imagination. The way he (re)sourced other things, subtly most of the time, and added a bit if his own, to come up with the cocktail that is his life's work.
He devoted so much time and energy towards it: most of him life, in some way or another.
And finally, his assured belief that he was not an author if fiction, but a privaleged historian.
The man was an out and out literary genius, and his work shall never be bettered.
There never was much hope: only a fool's hope
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"I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew..."
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sinaes
(Tue Aug 5 01:47:57)
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I'm like a good haines t-shirt: tagless 
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 Oog make mission statement.
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company.
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